Scott-a-Martin: Episode 1139

Transcript

[0:00:23] HA: If you want rapid, healthy, and sustainable growth for your business, there’s no shortcut. Hacks and tactics promising 10x growth might yield short-term results but won’t provide you long-term gains. It’s time to rethink chasing hack-tics and shift your growth mindset to unlock the hidden potential within your business that can quickly generate ongoing waves of profitability. Welcome to the Author Hour Podcast. I’m your host Hussein Al-Baiaty and I’m joined today by author Scott Martin, who is here today to talk about his new book called Groundswell: The Unseen Wave of Business Growth. Let’s flip through it. Hello friends and welcome back to the show. I’m super excited to have my friend, Scott Martin on the show today. Scott, thanks for coming on, man.

[0:01:15] SM: Thanks so much for having me, aloha.

[0:01:17] HA: Yeah, I’m super excited. Dude, I got to tell you, perusing throughout your book, I loved all the graphics and fun, creative ways that you put that together throughout the book. I got to give you some props on that, it looks really cool but other than that, yeah.

[0:01:32] SM: There’s 66 of them.

[0:01:34] HA: Yeah, there is a lot of them for sure, I noticed.

[0:01:37] SM: It was an ambitious project. Let me tell you, three years later.

[0:01:39] HA: For sure, yeah man, but I like that man, it kind of keeps it slow going but also man, your book is really easy to navigate and get pulled in by. I think sometimes business books, marketing books, those kinds of things, they’re all great. However, sometimes, it takes a little while to warm up and get into the flow of the content. I found yours pretty easy to navigate and get into, man. So, I got pulled in quite a few times as I was perusing it in the last few, I would say, I usually have about 12 to 24 hours to do some research. Yeah, so it was good man, it was good for me to just navigate through it. But I’m really excited because I picked up some questions along the way. But before we get into all of that man, for me, I love getting to know you, laying down the personal background. I’d love to know a story or two of you growing up and sort of what led you down this path. And of course, there are many people who inspired me to get on my path, including my father and things like that, and I’d love to know if there was someone in your life that perhaps inspired you and maybe push you along the way in your path and journey right now. So, let’s start with that, let’s jump back in time a little bit and share a little bit of a personal background, if you will.

[0:02:49] SM: No problem. I think there is a lot of people that I can draw from, but probably my first was my father. A self-made entrepreneur. Watching him be incredibly successful to the point where he retired, it seemed like quite an early age, in his 30s, and ended up volunteering for the span of about, it seemed like about five or six years, and that had him volunteering and traveling around the world. And we ended up moving to the Philippines for a number of years and I was a missionary kid. I had a pet monkey and all the rest and I went to private school up in Quezon City in the Philippines. I was there for a couple of years and that experience really, the combination of being an entrepreneur and having impact is really the origin story of Groundswell. I mean, if I really think back about what was the inspiration, and just seeing someone who dedicated his life to making income and then basically not working and volunteering. And when he came back, through changes in the economy and situations, he had to go back to work. He had to go back into business and it was really heartbreaking to see him initially struggling to come back. And I guess for me, looking at like, “Wow, there’s someone that I just admire,” and I’m like, “He wanted to make an impact,” and I’m like, “Is there a way, maybe it’s a question I’ve been asking myself subconsciously, to sustainably do that, to be of impact and going and start a business?” So, if I had someone I ever want to have to, it probably be my father for sure, but business and sort of shaping what’s grown into you, what’s - I guess now, my practice of over 25 years in marketing and advertising, I would say the second is, of many, is Don Peppers. Don Peppers, he’s an author. He and Martha Rogers have written several books and one day I saw him speaking, talking about one-to-one marketing, about personalization. It just captivated me about the possibility of creating business engagement and experience on a one-to-one personal level. So I really see that as being another major component that combine my practice, whereas applying what he created as a framework was just called, get, grow, keep in business. How do you get customers, grow customers, and keep customers? I actually apply that to all my clients over decades and I modified it and that’s really what this book is about.

[0:05:08] HA: I love that man, it’s such a powerful, I would say, origin story, which we’ll get into a little bit later of course, but I love that. I love giving shoutouts to people who - whether they know it or not sometimes, they help shape our thinking, help shape our stories, especially the ones that are super close. Sometimes they don’t actually - sometimes it’s people that you just meet or strangers or someone that has an impact on you, and I think where I’d like to take this conversation is about that, it’s about building connections. It’s about building those core values in and around your business, and you really emphasize that, the importance of building connections with your audience throughout your book and how you approach growth. Can you share a story about a time when you personally established a connection with a client or someone that you had a significant impact on your business, and how you were able to grow perhaps their business and how they were able to grow?

[0:06:04] SM: That’s an interesting question. Across the board over, we’re talking hundreds of brand redesigns, clients, probably now in the thousands of campaigns, there’s patterns and we identify patterns. And usually when people are looking at marketing or doing things, they identify patterns and then you look at, “Well, let’s differentiate those patterns and find which ones do create a difference,” and then you create your new patterns. And patterns that I saw was that these successful businesses that were actually bringing down their cost of marketing doing things differently, were building relationships with the customers in a more meaningful way. And then the differentiation of pattern was businesses that were brands that actually meant something to the relationship, it wasn’t transactional. It was something deeper, and that deeper relationship culminated into a more lasting and a bidirectional relationship, if you will. And then finally, creating patterns is I started testing and trying building community, and applying some of my thinking with various different clients and those relationships, having a relationship with your client that allow you to do certain things for their business is one. You have to have a deep trust relationship, but I would argue that any business relationship that I’ve been in, for the most part, I’ve had a deep relationship. My focus has been how clients in businesses deepen those relationships in a way to make deeper meaning, and that deeper meaning is what I call a growth loop. And when I break down my book in my four sections, it’s the last component, which is transform component, which is when you ultimately actually created deep, meaningful relationship that is so meaningful, it goes through three different stages. The first is move. You move a relationship, you move products, you move things that transactional it’s functional. That’s how you move your hand from one, any person to just move over to grab the other one, which is Old Spice or something, right? But the next step is when you change. I was a PC user, now I’m a MAC user. I was a Right Guard, now I’m an Old Spice, right? That’s changed, and sometimes there’s emotion that’s there but it takes a little bit more of a relationship or an emotional state to do that in business. So when you're trying to change behavior, being an agent of change as a lot of marketers are, you have to have some level of relationship with them and on a commodity like antiperspirant, it’s more of a brand emotional connection. On a deeper sense, we have direct contact with your clients, you have to have engagement. You have to have some level of dialogue and relationship with them. And then last is transform. When you actually are able to transform the way that they see the world, to transform the way they will never buy antiperspirant the same way, they’ll never do business in the same way, that’s when they basically are compelled to tell other people. So the first one in move, I don’t tell anyone. When it changes, when I’ve changed from one to another, I might tell. It’s word of mouth, that’s where most businesses live. But when you change somebody, and just think of your personal relationships, when I’ve looked at any relationship from a client to anything, when you just move them with a message or an idea, then I can even shout from the rooftops. But if you change your way of thinking, they’re going to probably tell the people like, “This guy has really good ideas.” But when you transform them, they will tell everyone that they know. So to me, those are called depth of impact, which is what you’re describing, which is depth of relationship.

[0:09:20] HA: That’s really powerful man. Because it differentiates you from the idea of creating. I know you talk about this in the book too, you call it the hack-tics right? The hacks and the tactics that we use to grow a certain campaign or the ad spend and all that good stuff. You can get this uptick in your sales of course, but then it falls back down to the baseline and that’s unhealthy, right? And we got to look at this thing, whatever it is that we’re marketing in our business, all those good things, in a more sustained fashion. And you blend traditional forms of marketing of course, with modern ways of thinking without the need of trying to hack our way through something, and I really appreciate that. But one of the key things I really enjoyed in your book is the value of patience and achieving sustainable growth. Can you describe a time when you had to resist the urge to take a shortcut or implement a quick fix? Because dude, there’s been so many times, like I owned an apparel printing company for almost 15 years and there were so many times where that I used to take the quick fix. Of course, when I was younger, it did not pan out. But later, I learned I got to be patient, I got to apply the right processes and all these kinds of things. But can you tell me about a time where you resisted that urge and how that paid off for you in the long run?

[0:10:40] SM: Yeah, this is a big topic. The heading on that chapter is “Patience is the new growth hack.” I’m a recovering shoot, aim, fire, individual that was chasing all these hack-tics and the shortcuts in the effort of growth. So there’s multiple examples and I have one example that’s probably the most salient for me. I started up a company called Swellness. It was my own company with - I had a business partner, Melanie, she’s lovely, and we ended up working for a year, building a subscriber base, we had an app, we had followers, we had hundreds of videos shot in Bali, Mexico, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and California. And those videos were trying to create a more modular workout model, where somebody could have this surfer style workout and have these workouts and not have to do the same workout twice. Somebody who really valued variety, valued like, “I just want to show up and just always be inspired by the place I’m working out in,” and then you could group them and you can go, “No, I want to do the same repeat pattern once.” If you want to you can as well but the goal was, you technically could not actually do the same workout in over six months. It would be the potential. So we did this, it was all video. It was all delivered online platform and a year later, we broke even and had different expectations. So she said, “You know, this isn’t making the money that I wanted. I think this isn’t for me, I’m going to move on to things. I don’t know if this is what I want to do,” and I was like, “No, just hang on.” It’s like, we just built this thing, I can’t even believe we broke even the first year, right? She didn’t want to and that was fine and we shut down the business. Eight months later, COVID happened. That was a salty taste. That would have been a multi, multi, multimillionaire with that product and you know, it really galvanized that chapter. That is really what I really reflected on multiple past patterns, different patterns that I saw and I saw in businesses, I’ve always seen in businesses, where often you're focused on, “What’s the immediate ROI?” As opposed to, “What’s the depth of relationship this is creating what the brand, with my audience, the people that I want to aim to impact and the long-term residual effect of my brand?” I think you need to be mindful of cashflow and this type of activity but far too often, most businesses, either by the fact that they are not managing their bottom line carefully or well or not willing to invest or they’re just not patient, they tend to find themselves in multiple situations where they’re really leaving a lot of value on the table by not being patient and playing through.

[0:13:14] HA: Man, what a valuable lesson to learn, impatience. That is so powerful in the belief and sticking something out a little bit longer, but everyone changes. Everyone comes to things a little bit differently of course but yeah, that’s a very valuable story. I’m glad you shared that because I want audiences to know that like man, entrepreneurship is one of those things that it’s like magic. It feels like it’s happening in front of you and you don’t know what’s happening, but the back end of what’s actually happening, how the trick actually comes to life is so hard and demanding and requires a ton of patience. And I think testing something out for a year, people test things out and you know this, right? You interview a lot of people for years, if not, decades sometimes before something works. And sometimes, you’re a little bit ahead of the curve and sometimes you’re behind the curve, and that happens in business of course but ultimately, we have to learn from it. And so learning from that, you talk about how your approach advocates for giving value to your audience without expectation. This idea of the give and take, but in your scenario, how you approach this is just give without expectation. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[0:14:30] SM: Yeah, I think the world that we’re in is so competitive now that the idea of just somebody going, “Hey, let’s just go get customers.” the thought of just these strategy of they’re cattle to be roped, type of thing. It’s just a mind shift change going, “What’s our gift to the world, what are we giving? What are we actually doing here to make a difference?” Now, what I’m describing this book, for the most part, is really aimed at impact-creators. I mean, this is really a perfect hit for them but it affects everybody or it could be applied by everybody. But to me, at the end of the day, if you’re looking and you look at the models that have been created, look at freemium models, look at Dropbox, its growth model, its growth loop started with a give, right? They shifted their moneys off of marketing, they gave the money to the people that were sharing space, they got more space and they gave space to the people they shared it with. That was a give. That was actually Shawn Elis’ innovation for Hacking Growth, who was on my podcast, and I made a comment in my book because this really is a little bit of a secret for marketing, but now it’s become a little bit of a table steak. So if you think of freemium, how many times have you seen, “Hey, we’ll try it for a month” or “It’s the puppy dog closing. Try it and then decide if you want to continue on.” Now, that free doesn’t always mean free. The focus is, give is the new get. It’s like, “What are we giving?” If you start from a place of, “What are we giving the audience that we want?” And so you look at the rise of content marketing. That’s about give, give, then get. If you think of a very famous, Gary Vaynerchuck, who I mean is, five Ds program since like, I don’t know, I think that was like back in 2000 and I think it was even, 2019 or ‘17 actually, and he had a book called Jab, Jab, Right Hook. That’s really, jab, jab, jab is, give, give, give. You really need to be thinking about it in business now is not just like, “What am I giving?” but if you give it the energy of like, “I want to get,” it just doesn’t work as well. When I see people in business and brands that give something with no expectation of return going, “This is our gift. This is our gift for you.” Because the shift that happens in that moment is not a transaction. It’s the difference between what I call buy and buy in. Chuck from Public Enemy, he’s got a famous quote that says, “People don’t buy from you until they buy into you,” and I think that that is exactly what I am talking about is this, by doing this, you’re getting people. You are not trying to sell them and then go, “Oh, you got me.” It’s like, but I want you to buy into me and to me, it changes the dynamic of the relationship, which we started with, which is this now starts the relationship with a much more deep and meaningful level.

[0:17:05] HA: Man, I love that so much. I mean, it really ties into just the foundation of how you set yourself up. You talk about this, we mentioned earlier the importance of finding your company, this epic origins and the story that unfolds around that in order to create a compelling brand identity. Can you tell me about a time when you sort of helped a company discover or rediscover their epic origins and how that impacted their growth, their – not just financial growth but just growth as a company to realign that?

[0:17:40] SM: Yeah, the epic origins, the details of the chapter was something like this: It starts with the founder. So often times, founders want to hand over the keys to a branding agency or marketing company go tell me what, “Well, how do we even market ourselves?” and that works. To me, this is very different. This is going back towards, it’s going to be the origin story of you, the founder. What’s in alignment with your values? What’s your epic outcome that you want to have? I find these brands that have these leaders, that have this desire to go back to the origin story and the why of when you started this, let’s go back to some of the stories and start it ourselves, because we love, as people, the story. We like the intentionality, we like the start of somebody really bringing forward the origin of their brand within themselves. I think of one of my clients, Mitch Hancock, who he had a brand that he acquired. It was a brand that has been around for 60 years and it just became clear that they needed to rebrand, which would have been a tough decision if you imagine a brand that’s been around for 60 years. And we renamed it, and the naming process and the why we brand that way was it started with his love for backcountry snowmobiling, and just the stories that he would have of connecting with his family and friends in the backcountry. The fact that going back to the basecamp, these camp fires or whatever, where they started at the parking lot before they went into these expeditions was the inspiration for his brand called Basecamp. And today, that brand, that origin story has connected so deeply with people that it’s created a groundswell, as I call it, where what has happened is he’s a dealership, a dealership for a larger brand called Skudu. Spends millions and millions of dollars to promote their product brand. His customers spend $2,000 or something of that range per Skudu wrapping our brand, Basecamp over their Skudu’s. And why did they do that? It’s because they want to be a part of something. It is about belonging, it is about community, and it’s because the origin story is true and it’s connected to the founder who is building out and following through on his values, connecting with that audience in a meaningful way, they want to be a part of it. Now it becomes their tribe, it becomes their shop, it becomes them, and they’re part of something. So to me, when you look at, that’s just one example of many where I really connect the founder-owner with the origin story, because you find these little truths that people feel, taste, understand, and connect with.

[0:20:08] HA: Yeah man, that’s so powerful. I love that you went there because here’s the thing, for me, I started this thing – the reason I wanted to bring this up is connecting stories, my personal story, I was a refugee. I grew up in a refugee camp and then I came here in the States like ’94 or whatever. I’ve always had this urge to want to help refugees or at least shed a positive light on not only them but that situation. The idea of I didn’t just choose to wake up one day, just choose to become a refugee, the circumstances of life led me here. So I owned an apparel printing company and I started this thing called Refutees, and it’s like when you order with us, we give back to the local refugee community in X, Y, Z way. Man, having been vulnerable and having written that story, and now, I have written my book and all this good stuff. It’s great, but connecting that to the campaign that we were doing that we started, which is the run-walk-play for refugees on World Refugee Day. And man, I can’t even express to you how many people connect not just because of my story that’s there but just the idea that like, “Oh, this makes sense.” We call it Refutees and we just started having fun with what does this mean, and just shedding a light on this world that is sadly, always looked upon as a sad story. But there are so many amazing remarkable people, right? They have tons of resilience and knowledge, wisdom, and stories, families that I really just wanted to share. So I love this part of your book because I deeply connected to it and I know when I instilled my story and made that the antithesis of why we’re doing what we’re doing, it just – man, it made people just really want to sign up, be a part of it, you know, ask me to come and chat. So I totally agree with you in the sense that the power of recognizing not only why are you doing something but really who you are and how that connects to things, which is why earlier in the conversation I’m like who inspired you because there’s always someone or perhaps something. Sometimes it’s like, I’ve had an amazing guest talk about his pet dog and how that inspired him. And it doesn’t really matter, it’s just what thing transformed you, who came along and shared a story or an experience that transformed you, how do you talk about that? And that’s really cool man, I’m glad you brought that up in your book because it is very important.

[0:22:33] SM: It’s human. It’s human. It’s the truth and that’s what people are. They’re not customers, humans are not customers. People do not want to be, they’re looking and wanting and hoping for things that are true and authentic and meaningful in their life. The days are gone. I mean, there’s always going to be room for commodity or price or these type of things but there is a segment, a growing segment, a groundswell of people that want their money to do more. That’s what this book is about, it’s about being a groundswell for good. It’s by leaving this world a better place, people, planet, and purpose. You know, really looking at connecting with people when and why, I mean, that’s like almost going back to how we began. It is like creating more of a community of people that care and more craftsman-like. There’s a joy in the fact that you know what you’re supporting as opposed to the fact that, “I just got this great product but I have no idea what’s behind it.” Or you find out later that there’s some nefarious way that some child labor was used for it. Just, you feel you’re a part of it, right? So I think that this is shifting.

[0:23:46] HA: Definitely man, I totally agree. I mean, I feel like with so much presence of fake avenues that live online unfortunately, we are seeking more of our truth. We are seeking more people who are truthful and just honest, and the best way to do that is to share your story and be vulnerable and really expose what you’re trying to do in a most authentic way that you can. And I think hearing our stories does that in amazing ways. But with all that, what was your – I know writing a book is no easy feat, man. I mean, it is a huge thing to undertake and go forth on especially while running a business and in your case, especially while doing a podcast and all these things. So what did you learn from putting this book together? What was your favorite part of that journey?

[0:24:30] SM: Getting my ideas organized. I think that that’s probably, the clarity of which I can communicate my ideas now because I have gone through the process of writing a book is exponential. The lesson I learned on this first book is now how to write a book. The impact I’m having is I’m able to more succinctly organize my thoughts to basically create the outcome I desire, which is really about positive impact for people and communicating my message. There are so many people that have a beautiful message, they have an incredible mission, they have a vision for the world but they come to me usually for marketing because they are trying to really get that messaging out. I really now advocate heavily going write a book because it gives you something to point to for sure. I mean, I can’t wait for the people that I impact that are reading it. But even if nobody ever reads this, I’ve already had massive success because I’ve been writing this thing for three years. The success I had while I have been writing this, my business has blown up because I understand and clearly communicate the power of what I’m doing. So yeah, amazing.

[0:25:38] HA: Yeah, very powerful. I can’t agree with you more. The same sort of recognition happened for me when I wrote my book. I was just able to organize the stories, the thoughts, the messaging. It was not only developing but really putting them in place. That is very true throughout the journey, that does happen, and the clearer you become about your message of course, the easier it is for us to then take it and expand on it, or put it out in the world in a way that actually impacts.

[0:26:08] SM: A confused mind never buys.

[0:26:10] HA: Dropping gems on it, man, I love that.

[0:26:13] SM: It’s not my quote, it’s someone else’s but it’s true, right? So buy or buy in. Whatever you’re selling, we’re all selling. We’re selling where we’re going to go for our date night with our spouse, we’re selling our ideas. We all, in some way, shape or form are looking to make impact, make meaning in our life. So the clarity in which that you created, but if you understand the steps of influence, a deeper sense of what can move people, stir people and more importantly, create a groundswell. That’s really what this book is about, it’s not just communicating that message. It’s like having a combined message-purpose and almost blueprint so that you can really create a massive outcome of, the real baseline of this book is around, sustainable growth marketing. And if you want to create a message, how many of you have created a message, it worked for a bit and then kind of went away? It’s like campaign messaging, right? It’s like it worked and then it didn’t sustain and you are constantly changing and evolving. That’s normal. But when you can really figure out how can I create something that this message is resonated, so it’s sort of like that exercise where you tell somebody a sentence and you say to the person beside you and they go all around the room, by the time it goes the other end, it is not even the same message, right? It’s because, part of it is you had to remember the words, the sequence, and exactly the order. But when the feeling, I call it the brand manager, what’s the feeling you want people to have? People remember how you made them feel and that’s how you communicate to them, the stories that you tell, people remember the stories that deepens it but if you have a compelling message and a mission and a vision of creating impact in the world, that’s what I call creating groundswell. When you actually create a growth loop, when you are giving something to the world, you can grow deeper with them and transform the way they think. What happens is other people are compelled to tell your story and if you can clearly communicate it, all the better. This is what creates a rapid and exponential groundswell.

[0:28:02] HA: Yeah man, very powerful. Speaking about feelings, I mean, I feel like going through your book I certainly felt, in a way, heard. I don’t know if that makes any sense, like there are so many things in your book that layout this, the foundation of everything you’re talking about but in a way, as a person who’s gone through business and managed and done the marketing and all these kinds of things. Now, really saved a lot and just focusing on this very mission-driven social impact thing that I want to create around refugees, I felt heard. And I felt ,especially around the epic origins and being patient and extending the work long term and having a longer vision and just keep planting seeds, that’s how I felt. But what do you hope that readers feel when they walk away from the book?

[0:28:56] SM: Beyond hope, they feel so inspired to build their own groundswell, to find their gift to the world and create a movement, so that we all – like really, it’s going to take all of us. It’s not going to be government, it is not going to be wait for the next person and to me, my impact and my hope for people is they’ll be inspired not just to go do good, this isn’t about that. This is about business, it’s a business book. It’s about either shifting my business to become something of impact, to make a difference, to do business differently, to inspire other people to become a business of impact, but most importantly, it is my tagline for businesses, transforming business as usual into business is beautiful. To me, I believe the scourge of the world is here. I am a marketer and I am trying to tell people how to market without marketing. That marketing can be economic ways that’s mostly interruptive, it’s actually becoming increasingly impotent and the reason why is because we want to find a place. We’re paying money like Netflix to not be advertised to. They follow us around. It’s like that interruption that to me is short term thinking is, “Hey, I just want to put some money and interrupt people and browbeat them with my message, maybe they’ll buy.” It takes more work and time to magnetize, to inspire, to create word of mouth. To me, what I am hoping is that I am inspiring other people to market differently, to create a - why can’t marketing and be a beautiful experience? Why does it have to be something that people go, “I got to do it” or it becomes a separate exercise of the business itself? So in my book, what I communicated is a salient point where you are inspired to go, “I am actually marketing by just being not doing.” By being right, doing the right things, by sharing my message and embedding them into what I do, it can be its own form of marketing. And a simple example of that would be a business that tries to go and they produce ads, they produce campaigns versus creating a program, and maybe that program is to work in the community that they want to serve and they provide something of service that helps them, inspires them. I’ve done this multiple times in different programs where that actually activity is marketing, but it’s helping. That’s the give, right? It’s like, what are you giving? If you are really thinking about, “What am I giving my audience, the people, clients, the world that I want to serve?” it changes everything, and that’s my hope, is that people are inspired to give more and to really look at this framework as a way of impact and look at how can marketing be something that is not interruptive and what I call eye and noise pollution, really.

[0:31:44] HA: Yeah man, I love that so much. It is a very honest and transparent way of doing marketing. I am excited for your book to go out and make this impact in the world. Scott, thank you for sharing your stories and experiences with me. I’m very grateful to have had you on the show today. I’ve learned so much, of course, all the gems all throughout. The book is called, Groundswell: The Unseen Wave of Business Growth. Guys, if you’re out there listening to this, please go get this book, it is remarkable. Besides checking out the book on Amazon, where can people find you and connect with you?

[0:32:15] SM: Very simply, Groundswell Origins is my business, groundswellorigins.com. If you go to groundswelling.com, that will be the direct link to the book. So if you bought the book, go to groundswelling.com and they’ll be some expanded case studies, access to the community and a workbook that we’re going to be producing that’s going to breakdown the origins build, give, grow, transform framework. You’ll be able to connect to other people and hear the stories of people that are actually building groundswells. And then lastly, just Scott Martin, @ScottAdamMartin on Instagram and Twitter. Easy, just hit search, Groundswell and Scott Martin, you’ll find me.

[0:32:48] HA: Scott, absolute honor today, my friend. Thank you for coming on the show.

[0:32:52] SM: Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[0:32:53] HA: Yeah, good luck on your book.

[0:32:54] SM: Mahalo.

[0:32:56] HA: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Author Hour. You can find, Groundswell: The Unseen Wave of Business Growth, right now on Amazon. For more Author Hour episodes, subscribe to this podcast on your favorite subscription service. Thanks for joining us, we’ll see you next time. Same place, different author.