Sean Cannell and Benji Travis: Episode 189

Transcript

[0:00:18] CH: What’s up everybody? It’s Charlie Hoehn, the host of Author hour, where I interview authors and today I’m super excited to be talking to Sean Cannell and Benji Travis, the coauthors of YouTube Secrets. If you’ve ever wanted to start a YouTube channel or maybe you’ve tried in the past and it hasn’t quite worked out for you and you wondered, how are people making a living doing this, how can I make a living doing what I’m passionate about, what I love. These guys have broken it down in their book and it’s awesome. They break down the strategy and the tactics that successful YouTube channels follow to make a full time living and in some cases, millions of dollars and it’s such a cool interview because I’ve been doing video for a long time and this is something that has always kind of felt elusive to me. YouTube just felt like this big blank canvas that it seems possible but I just didn’t know the code, I didn’t know the secrets to this stuff. Well how are they doing this? Sean and Benji explain it beautifully. I want to dive right into this interview, stick around for the whole thing because they give away a lot of the best content in their book, here we go, Sean and Benji.

[0:01:48] SC: You know, both of us have had individual paths and then we’ve crossed paths on the journey and so, we both have started online video and video years ago, I’ll let Benji tell his origin but for me in 2003, I was actually volunteering at my local church in the youth ministry and that’s when I got my first camera to use and some video editing software and the youth pastor said, start making videos and this was a big advantage because social media wasn’t even out yet. YouTube started in 2005, Facebook started in 2007 and so it was a couple of years head start where I was making videos but I’ll tell you what, your first videos are always your worst videos. That’s what entrepreneurs need to know too that are listening. Is just that you got to start somewhere and I was starting even before digital started and so then eventually, I started a media business and helping small businesses with YouTube and with creating content and that’s actually right at the same time I met Benji and so he can kind of tell what led up to that.

[0:02:45] BT: Absolutely and you know, a little bit different of an origin story for myself. I really started on YouTube as a consumer, you know, watching videos, I didn’t even know that YouTube could be used to build your personal brand. I did upload a few videos, I used to put on breakdancing battles back in the day so I would use YouTube as a video platform to promote my battles or just put like the recap video on there. It wasn’t until my wife, Judy, better known on YouTube as itsjudytime. She started making videos about making videos about makeup and hair from the corner of our bedroom and I was literally her first hater because I would say that she was wasting her time and I was like, why are you spending so many hours watching other people and then uploading videos and all the different things that went along with it. Now, I always tell people, she’s got the last laugh because a decade later, she’s basically my boss. She’s literally defined my life and I’m so grateful for it and that’s how I started. But ironically, the way Sean and I met was because of my wife, I wanted to propose to her and Sean was literally a guy I met a few days before the proposal and I called him up saying, hey, I know I don’t know you very well but I’m about to propose, I’d like to capture it to put it on YouTube and he’s like, yeah, I guess I’ll do it. Literally not knowing Sean at all, and he taped it and I was just so blown away but like his instinct not just as a photographer but really as somebody that understood that this is going to go on YouTube and how it should look and literally, the rest is history. Obviously, my wife and I are still married till this day but Sean and I had been good friends and have been able to build what we built and obviously write this book, YouTube Secrets.

[0:04:35] CH: Wow, that’s awesome. I’m curious about, it’s Judy time now. Is she still doing makeup tutorials?

[0:04:42] BT: Yeah, one of the things about our lives is outside of the book, outside of video influencers, both Sean and I do have our own channels. For me, specifically, I daily vlog and it’s with my wife Judy, she started a beauty channel, got about a million followers on there. Then decided to start a vlogging channel and that’s where I was really introduced and my wife, I would definitely say is a superstar in the space so for everything I’ve learned from experience and doing it, I always had a great role model at home because she’s just crushing when it comes to YouTube and social media in general, she’s probably one of the most influential moms on the planet. Just based off the impressions she’s gotten between the two of us, we’ve been able to get over a billion video views. Definitely somebody that I look up to and proud of that since she’s my wife and she’s taught both myself and Sean a lot.

[0:05:40] CH: Wow, that’s incredible, yeah. One point at the time of this recording, 1.36 million subscribers for it’s Judy time. You guys are a power couple, that’s incredible.

[0:05:51] BT: Thank you.

[0:05:52] CH: All right. I know a lot of people listening are probably like all right, what does it really take? I mean, it seems like YouTube, you have to work really hard for a long time before you get traction, right? What are the secrets to doing this well?

[0:06:09] SC: You know, I’m glad you said that because that’s really true, a lot of times you like to say, overnight success takes 10 years and however, in a lot of ways, YouTube’s not different than much else because anything that’s great or significant or impactful takes time and patience and hard work. YouTube, actually, using a small business as an analogy, it’s kind of a good reference point, they a lot of times say that it will take a small business, you know, 24 to 36 months to be profitable like you’re going to be putting in equity, sweat equity, hustle, time, to get it off the ground. So YouTube could be very similar. If you approach it with a strategy and we talk about that in the book, YouTube secrets and we can discuss our Seven Cs which is our Seven Cs of YouTube success but if you approach it with a strategy and you approach it with the right mentality, there are practical principles that can lead to predictable growth on YouTube.

[0:07:03] CH: Okay, Sean and Benji, I am your ideal reader. You’re speaking to your audience right now, okay? I have been doing stuff off and on, on YouTube, kind of lightly, no real strategy for years. I made a video series many years ago to help people relieve stress and that did pretty well for something that I put together over the course of a weekend, you know, I think to date, it’s probably not much to you guys but each video has 50, 60,000 views, I’ve helped other people who have gotten a million views on their videos and I love video. I’ve been doing it for 15 years, semi-professionally or full time. But YouTube kind of overwhelms me because I feel like it’s this giant blank canvas where I can be both an entertainer and a coach, somebody who can instruct. I almost don’t know where to start because it’s so overwhelming to think, what this could become. You know what I mean?

[0:08:10] BT: Absolutely. You know, a lot of people tell us that, especially if you’ve never understood the significance of YouTube and what’s possible from it. It can definitely be overwhelming. Even like yourself, like for someone that’s experienced, that’s been doing it for a while, it can still be something that you continue to figure out. You know, when I talk to somebody that’s first asking me like well, how do you make money off of YouTube? I didn’t even know there was people that had, you know, like a business or creative brand on this platform. I always explain, number one, you know, it’s a search engine. YouTube is the second biggest search engine on the planet, second only to Google and if you understand that concept, it will really help you to focus kind of your strategy around this idea of search. Because I know that it would seem obvious but then when people go to create their content, the challenges, the dots aren’t connecting, they’re creating content but it’s not searchable. You know, a lot of people might try to be mimicking other people. Maybe people that have already been successful, not realizing that there are 10 years ago self, was doing this, they were creating content that was searchable and they could get discovered. That’s the number one thing I would tell people. Then secondly, having you know, this is one of the Cs, clarity. If you have clarity about what you want to get out of YouTube and what it is that you want to do on YouTube, whatever that content might be and where you want to go with it and what kind of business model you want to have. It will help you understand the path you need to take because then you’ll watch the right channels and you can learn from other people’s successes. Obviously and that’s one of the reasons why we wrote this book because we want to simplify the path to success.

[0:09:59] CH: I want to push back a little bit on that. There’s this something that comes even before that and you talk about it in your book which is having the courage, right? Is to leap over the fears that you have that are holding you back. I have some fears around this that are based on – I don’t’ even know how to put it. I see big YouTube creators that I admire that I think, wow, that must be really doing well and they’re complaining about their ability to make money on the platform, right? Or that YouTube’s rules are very, I don’t know, pedantic I guess is the right word or they change all the time. And so, what do you say to somebody who is kind of rationalizing, I guess, reasons to not get started and you can kind of sense like hey, maybe some fear is holding you back here.

[0:10:48] SC: That’s a great question and that’s definitely why the first C is courage and you know, whether you’re a beginner and you’re not, it sounds like you’re already confident to get on camera but for anybody who is hesitating, at the end of the day, Nike had it right, you just have to do it, you just have to press record, you have to punch fear in the face, punch perfectionism in the face and press record. Your first videos are going to be your worst videos. But also, once you’re further along, it still takes courage just like you're talking about to say hey, do I still want to charge this mountain, do I still want to tackle this giant? You know, we’ve noticed that. I think actually one of the reasons why this book is so important is because we got to a lot of the big influencer events, a lot of the conferences and we talk to people and you’d be stunned how many pretty famous YouTubers are kind of living paycheck to paycheck. The reason for that is they’re actually kind of depending on YouTube to be their source. They’ve actually misunderstood what YouTube really is. Ultimately, YouTube is a distribution platform. It’s not about YouTube. YouTube is a bridge between the content you’re creating and the potential if you will, customer, or community that you want to reach. That’s just like this podcast is that same thing, this is a bridge but the reason someone’s listening.

[0:12:04] CH: Right, you’re not looking to iTunes for this podcast to like, send you a paycheck.

[0:12:09] SC: 100%, it’s a distribution platform, saying that then, you have to think as an entrepreneur and as a business minded content creator, I need to build a business model around this, you know? Whether that’s something to sell, whether that’s affiliate marketing, whether that’s another income source, whether that’s actually working directly with brands, you don’t even need YouTube to pay you AdSense or advertising if you build up an audience that’s interested in what you’re talking about. You could directly to a brand that is aligned with that same audience and work with them, we have examples in the book of smaller channels, small to the tunes of a couple of hundred subscribers or a couple of thousand that do brand deals because they’ve built a targeted audience and AdSense might be paying them $20 a month because of the views they’re getting on their videos but they’ve done brand deals to the tune of $2,000 because they’re going out there as an entrepreneur and selling and negotiating and creating business because really, again, it’s a distribution platform.

[0:13:10] BT: I’d like to add one more thing. I want to just answer what you’ve mentioned before which is you hear these other YouTubers that are struggling or have been challenges. You know, one of the things we pride ourselves on is the last few years, we’ve been able to interview over a hundred creators, that no matter what the time was, no matter what algorithm changes or what other people were saying, people not only were continuing to succeed on the platform, but also new creators were finding success. And sometimes, people we’ve interviewed are finding success within 12 months because they’re just hustling, they’re putting on these blinders. You know, for the new person that’s on the fence about starting, whether you start or not, there’s literally millions of people that are going to start a channel today and there’s going to be a handful every single day that will find success. If that like tips you over the fence, in the right direction, I’d be so happy.

[0:14:06] CH: I’m hearing a few things here that are key, one is do not confuse YouTube for what it’s not. Don’t think of YouTube as your employer, think of it just as a means to get your message out. Don’t look to it as your primary source of income, just use it as the platform that it is to reach millions of people. Then the second thing that I’ve heard before is put on the blinders, focus and be relentless and go at it hard until you get to that success point. I’m curious for both of you, when was that first big success point? Where you realized, damn, I can make this work.

[0:14:52] SC: You know, for me, it was before it was working but we like to talk about kind of for entrepreneurs or maybe there’s someone listening that would love to do something else full time, currently has a day job and they’re wondering, when is that jump off point and we like to talk about the 25% rule. That if you’ve produced 25% of what you would need to live on monthly from a side hustle, then that’s proof of concept that imagine, if you were to quit your job, by the way, please nobody email us if you really take this advice. It’s really good advice in the sense that if you can generate, let’s say you need make $4,000 a month. If you’re generating $1,000 a month off of your side hustle, and you were able to then go full time, 40, 50, 60 hours to get your dream job off the ground, then that’s kind of your proof of concept. And I share that because for me, YouTube and affiliate marketing was how I was able to go full time and build a six figure income and leave all other projects behind and jobs and freelance clients and that was basically through doing tech reviews, I’ve been doing video as I mentioned since 2003. I’d help people find the best camera, the best lighting, the best microphones and you could do an affiliate link which connects to like, amazon.com and if somebody clicks on the custom link they give you when you sign up for the program, if they buy a camera you recommend or any kind of product on Amazon which is the everything store, right? It applies to every niche, then you get a small commission and so when I began to see the proof of concept that wow, I’m making $5 a month, I’m making $50 a month, I’m making $500 a month. Eventually, even though I wasn’t quite there yet, I was like man, I just need to keep scaling this and that will help me jump off and do this full time. It was the aha moment that wow, YouTube is a distribution platform, it’s a traffic source. Affiliate marketing is just one of the ways to create income and by connecting those two things and staying consistent in a side hustle, I was eventually able to make it my main thing.

[0:16:50] CH: What was it for you, Benji?

[0:16:52] BT: Yeah, a little bit different for me because it actually had more to do with my wife. Like I said before, she was the one that inspired me to get into YouTube and become a YouTuber, a vlogger and now you know, a YouTube expert writing a book about it. In the beginning, I was just happy that my wife was getting makeup sent to her so that I wouldn’t have to go to the makeup store and wait for hours, right? I was like, this is something like, if you can get free makeup for putting up videos from home, why don’t you do it and then when she start getting paid and I actually started helping, negotiate with brands, working on the business sites, like the outreach and communication, I told her I was like, you know, if you spent more time committed to the videos that you love so much and less at work or maybe even completely quit work, I think that this can be your full time thing. That wasn’t exactly when I realized there was something crazy going on here, it was when she gave me the ability to retire from my business, not even a day job because I had a business I was doing really well because of what I learned from her, I started a YouTube channel for my real estate business but I much rather work with my wife and work on her business because she was just growing so quickly. It was at that moment when my wife who for whatever reason, I just assumed that I would be the one providing for our family, was able to provide for both of us and I could clearly see this was going to continue growing, that’s when I was like, how is it that two kids from an hour north of Seattle is able to create content from our house and do this thing called YouTube, never have experience and be successful at it. That was the moment when I realized, not only could we do it. Anybody could do this.

[0:18:45] CH: That’s great. It’s always a good feeling when you’re like hey, I married up. Yeah, I want to talk about making content that actually matters and has an impact, right? I’ve seen a fair number of YouTubers get on and just it’s awkward, I’ve seen friends of mine try and do this where they just go to places and they’re like, here I am at a waterpark and then it’s like, here I am at the grocery store, picking out stuff and it’s just a bunch of vignettes basically of their day set to music and then that’s the video and they’re like, don’t forget to subscribe and leave a comment. They’re kind of following this formula that they think is the formula to becoming an influencer and this is how you make it on YouTube but there’s no understanding of actual storytelling and actually creating value and all this stuff. How do you create great content?

[0:19:42] SC: You know, one thing I would want to say is I would want to encourage people that are doing that even still because your first videos will be your worst videos and if you can just get anything up there, you know? One part of my journey is now I’ve got this successful YouTube channel called ThinkMedia and together, Benji and I have built video influencers from scratch to over I think 350,000 subscribers now during the journey of leading up to this YouTube secrets book launch and those are great and they’re going well but I have three YouTube channels actually that failed. I have three YouTube channels that actually really never went anywhere where I was on there, I was experimenting, I learned a lot, I even made some money, they just never turned into anything really significant but when I look back on those, I think, man, that was part of my learning curve. Number one, I think that just –

[0:20:31] CH: Let me pause you there Sean, let’s dive into those a little bit because there’s some gold there and I know you’re making a point here but tell a little bit more the story behind those channels?

[0:20:39] SC: Absolutely. Well, the first one was actually a channel for my business called Clear Vision Media and you know, it probably never had a chance to succeed because really, it was just my online portfolio. I think t here’s a lesson there for video production, for uploading things but the lesson was, why would someone want to subscribe to that channel just to see my random work? If I wanted to grow my business, if I was to do it again, I would have actually been adding value to my clientele, my customers and not just uploading, here’s an example of my work, I might have been giving them tips about how to use video marketing about how to maybe optimize the websites because that’s what I was doing in my business. But II still sat there staring at my YouTube channel, wondering why it wasn’t growing. Then there was my personal channel where kind of exactly what you said, I vlogged for a little bit, my wife and I were going out to eat and it was doing all right, you have a few hundred people following you which is amazing but I had this kind of realization, this is not about to grow to something that’s going to be substantial. One day we uploaded a vlog, the next day, I reviewed the Amazing Spider Man, the next day, I film myself doing barbeque corn on the cob, on the grill, the next day I did a review of Bark Box for my dogs, I was all over the place, that’s why we bring it back to clarity, our second C but those were lessons, I learned from just being random, by just not really going in with an intentional strategy and here’s the two things Charlie. We really want people to define, if you want to succeed on YouTube, you need to know who is your target audience. And, number two, what is your value proposition for that audience? For those early channels, I actually didn’t have an answer to either of those questions. I was like, who is your target audience? YouTube, the whole world, you know, it’s everybody but we all the time say, if you try and reach everybody, you end up reaching nobody and so I just wanted everyone to care but really, nobody cared. Then as far as my value proposition, I was like, I don’t know, they’ll probably find me interesting. Not actually promising a certain level of value. Now you mentioned your video is about reducing stress, that’s value. You might have a channel that’s all about mental health, mental wellbeing, peace, you know? Getting away from some of the distractions and social media that happen in our culture. You could tell people that, you could say, look, if you’re a busy entrepreneur, that’s your target audience then the value proposition of this channel is going to be the best mindset hacks, the best tips, sleep routines and whatever it is to help you experience more peace and less anxiety in the modern world. Well, that would be a good value proposition but those channels, one of the reasons they failed was that’s forging towards this realization that man, you need clarity, you need to know who you want to reach, how you’re going to reach them, how often you want to upload and connect with that audience and really, you can make what we would call, just a napkin plan. I think a lot of times, this can get daunting and overwhelming and that napkin plan could just be, I’m going to upload one video a week, I mean, I have this social media platform as a support platform or maybe go live once a week and that’s it. There’s like three things on the napkin and you just work that plan and keep focused on that clear target audience and that clear value that you want to deliver consistently.

[0:23:46] BT: Just want to add, don’t feel too bad for your friends because literally, Sean’s first video, I don’t know if it’s exactly this but it was something along the line of don’t expect anything entertaining, I’m not going to be exciting, there’s not much on this channel that’s going to be like very energizing, it was literally his first words. And my video, again -

[0:24:12] CH: Wait a minute.

[0:24:13] BT: Then my video, I literally had no value, I was literally just talking about what I thought was going to go on my channel as every YouTuber does on their first video, introducing themselves. But the one thing I would say is this. If somebody had to walk away with this next 30 to 60 seconds, Just think, when you’re recording, when you’re uploading, when you’re engaging, what is the value that you're going to add into somebody’s life, what are you going to do for them from your computer to their computer that’s going to help them in their life? If you remember that every time we think of a topic or the content you’re going to record and upload, then you’ll win and that’s what I think our friends, including us forget, because the reason we watch YouTube or just online videos in general is because that’s something that happens for us. Whether we’re entertained, we’re educated, informed, whether we have a connection, you know vloggers, people just think we are vlogging our lives. It is just random stuff, you know people are connecting with people that have similar passions, similar interests and that’s the point. Are you adding value to someone’s life?

[0:25:22] CH: Beautifully said. And I wanted to nitpick on this one point that you mentioned Sean which I’ve heard before which is sort of the cadence of which you upload videos. I’ve heard this that you’ve got to be consistent for your audience’s sake, why is this so important that you set this rhythm?

[0:25:42] SC: Well I think you could think about it just like dating. If you want to date someone and eventually have that lead to a significant relationship, Charlie, it would probably be a good idea to go on a great first date and make a good first impression, yes?

[0:25:56] CH: Yeah, for sure.

[0:25:58] SC: Absolutely and then probably the next step if there is some synergy would be to schedule a follow up date. So in my case maybe it was with my wife Sonia, now we are married but if I scheduled that follow up date and she’s ready. I told her to meet me at the restaurant, we’re going to get breakfast. 8 AM, Tuesday morning, we’re going to get breakfast and then she shows up, she sits there but I ghost her, right? I just don’t answer texts and I don’t answer her phone call, I don’t show up now I may get away with that once, right? She maybe like, “Look my car broke down, I got a ticket.” Maybe and by the way that’s a big maybe because if you ghost somebody you’re probably not going to get that follow up date but if I do that two times, it’s game over and that’s not going to lead to a significant relationship. At the end of the day, entrepreneurs need to realize that you’re building a reputation of showing up for people. You’re making people a promise and then you are following through on that promise. That is how you build a strong personal brand and that’s how you build a strong business by consistent value no matter what that is. It is the same thing, if you call a business it’ frustrating. The other day, I was on my cellphone company and I never was able to achieve the goal I wanted. And so I am telling you about it right now like I am mad, I’m offended and all this stuff. Everybody is having that same kind of experience with our brands. So we like to say, we really believe that at least once a week is a minimum time to show up and I mentioned that breakfast with Sonia, my wife, 8 AM on Tuesday maybe that’s when your new video comes out for a lot of entrepreneurs, you might have an email list, you might have other social media and you can kind of build a culture that you add value once a week but like a weekly show and then your goal is to follow through with that. I think a lot of times, in fact a stunning amount of times, I’ll be on coaching calls with people and they’ll ask for advice and I’ll go to their YouTube channel, I will look at the last time they upload it even if they have uploaded a lot of videos and then I’ll say, “Okay well problem number one you’ll haven’t uploaded in six weeks,” and then they look like, “Well yeah but how do I optimize everything else I am doing?” Well thing number one is building that consistent routine. That consistent show, that weekly show just like your favorite television show which is actually messing with us now because we can all binge everything on Netflix all at once when it gets released. But a lot of times a weekly show comes out every Sunday at seven and if it doesn’t play, they crowd the audience. The fans are outraged right? So you want to create that pillar. You know people do business with people they know, like and trust and trust is built through consistency.

[0:28:36] CH: Totally. So you just mention that when you’re assessing a student’s YouTube channel and you noticed, “Oh they haven’t posted in six weeks,” that’s number one. What’s number two, three, four? What are the other things that you consistently find and people who aren’t hitting the levels that they want to hit?

[0:28:54] BT: One of the things that sets YouTube apart and social media in general from traditional media, so Sean used the example of TV shows or movies. YouTube and social media, it’s a two way street for like community is so important and a lot of the YouTubers, video influencers, creators that we interview including my wife, you know they spend half the time creating the content uploading to YouTube and then the other half, they’re engaging with their audience. So when I actually meet some of these creators who aren’t having success or something’s not gripping and they are not growing, partly it is because they think they are going to upload to YouTube and YouTube is going to do the rest of the work. Well that’s when the work starts. I mean there is a reason the comment section has the reply function on it and Sean and I, we try our best to at least reply to as many comments as possible within the first 24 hours. Because that engagement not only builds community but that’s where you are going to get your feedback to improve your videos. You know one thing that I love that Sean says is consistency is not enough. You need consistency with observation and improvement consistently. And a part of that is staying in touch with your audience and not only communicating with them on YouTube, but on social media and that’s why we have profiles on Instagram, on Facebook, on Twitter. It’s to keep that conversation going because not only is it going to help you improve your content, it’s going to help you understand what your audience is looking for and that’s the magic. You know the reason you all, I was just talking about this with somebody that is a digital influencer on Instagram and it is incredible how many people still tend to gravitate towards YouTube even if they had success on Vine which we know is not around. Success on Facebook or Instagram, they all want to be YouTubers. So they want content on there. It is because of the relationship that is built as a result of that hard work to build that community and that trust that you gained because you’re talking to them, you are listening to them and you’re adding value beyond the video.

[0:31:11] CH: So I have been flipping through your book and I can’t recall if you said this in your book but I feel like it was a quote that you included which is you design for the audience that you want, right? So have you guys found yourselves ever with a community, I mean all of the community stuff that you mentioned Benji of doing stuff on all of the different social media and engaging and everything, in theory I love it but I’d imagine it can also be one of the most exhausting parts of the process right? Especially if you have an audience, a community that you’re like, “Oh man this wasn’t who we were going for.”

[0:31:50] BT: Absolutely, you know the one thing I would say is that’s why we put clarity at the beginning of the book because if you are clear with your messaging and what you want to accomplish and you’re clear with the type of content you are putting out there, you are going to be aligning to connect with that audience. Now nothing is guaranteed, you definitely have your moments or instances where people create a community that they didn’t expect. A great example of this is a cooking channel that were just putting up recipes, right? And it was an older lady, I forget the channel name but she was just putting up recipes of foods that she likes to cook for family during holidays but during football season, she though, “Hey I’m going to put out some of the recipes I put up and I cook for my family or people and guests that come over to my house to watch the game. Well she found that those recipes on YouTube just sky rocketed. Tons of views and these aren’t those typical like home cooks or chefs, these are football fans that wanted a last minute recipe for game day. So it completely changed the dynamic, she went with it, she just doubled down on it. So again, it is up to you what you want to do but again having that clarity at the very beginning is so important because you are right, you could be creating something that you don’t want ultimately down the road and we find that with a lot of creators who get burnt out. And that’s what happens, they’re getting burnt out and even me I can tell you for me personally, you know I got into this managing my wife’s business which is a beauty brand. It had to do with makeup and hair, right? Very female centric. When we started our vlog, 90% of our audience are females. So I am catering to my wife’s audience and I loved it even to this day we still have a vlog and it’s a similar dynamic but in my heart I knew what I brought to the table which wasn’t necessarily beauty obviously or anything female-centric. It was this passion for this platform of YouTube and ultimately, that’s one of the reason not only why I want to write this book but start our channel video influencers because that was my passion and we have such clarity at the beginning that four years later, we have an audience that we knew that we wanted and the alignment and again, it is a great comment because it does happen to people and you have to start with the end in mind at the very beginning.

[0:34:17] CH: Totally, I mean that’s been some of the trepidation on my part, personally, is exactly what you are talking about is I’ve gone down the path before in various other businesses and stuff that have done fairly well but then far enough down the path I’ll realize, “Oh I wasn’t aligned with my heart at the beginning.” And because of that there is no joy in this work and it shines through that the work is just lackluster and I think there is a little bit of that fear in going into YouTube into falling into that trap and not even knowing that I’m falling into it.

[0:34:56] SC: Of course, I think we all experience that, Charlie, and I know personally I do but I really try to hold to the philosophy of sometimes you win and sometimes you learn. And ultimately, we are all in a journey of self-discovery even those other YouTube channels, I think about clients that I had in my media business. I shot a lot of wedding videos. I eventually learned that I really don’t like shooting wedding videos. They are awesome but they are really stressful. You’re like, “What if I miss the kids, what if I do it wrong?” It’s a lot of pressure. So even the nuances inside a space is broad as YouTube, you have to have a level of passion that you want to communicate. You want to impact other people, you have to have a level of enjoyment of doing online video because you are going to be making a lot of videos and of course you could build teams and systems around you or maybe outsource editing but you definitely want to know that you love and embrace the process. But I think on the journey, there is a lot of self-discovery and so the ultimate thing is that we like to talk in terms of projects, not everything has to be your life’s purpose. You might just work on a project and that YouTube channel could last for a year, two or three and winning could be defined as a lot of different things. Maybe there is monetary gain, maybe there is just relationship and influence gain, you know from launching these YouTube channels, we’ve met so many incredible people that enrich our lives right now that are part of our teams. They do other things, some of our best friends we’ve met because of the power of YouTube. So even if a project didn’t ultimately take off and it is not the business that you still run today, there is so many good things that can happen along the way. That’s why I actually think that one of the things that we look for if we are hiring a team member is we love to see people who have a YouTube channel under their belt whether it is successful or not, there is something about the discipline that they’ve been putting out content, refining their voice. Experimenting with their creativity. I think that adds to your portfolio no matter what. I would always chose somebody who is kind of been ambitious and experimental on platforms because I know man, they are embracing this new kind of new form of communication and that’s going to make you just really a better human being, in my person and also have a more valuable skillset whether or not you’ve experience massive success on YouTube.

[0:37:11] CH: Very nicely said and just to reiterate, sometimes you win sometimes you learn. It is a really healthy frame and thinking in terms of projects maybe one year or even as short as 90 days at a time, I think is really, really smart. So just to geek out for a second on YouTube, what are your favorite YouTube channels right now? What do you love to watch?

[0:37:33] BT: So for me personally, I just got back into cooking videos. So I have a channel called BenjaminTV and I am cooking recipes. So I just have been watching all of my friends channels, Byron Talbott, Laura Vitale which by the way is another success story from the book who started making videos from the basement of her house and now is on the food network as a regular host on shows but she doesn’t even need food network. She has her own cookbook, she’s continue to upload and also like Jamie Oliver, a celebrity chef who’s gone to YouTube and created FoodTube and is doing very well for himself but again, understood the significance of this platform. So those are the three main channels right now that I am watching.

[0:38:20] SC: Yeah and for me, there is a couple that I really like. Number one, Phil de Franco is actually our new source and so he’s one of the most influential news YouTubers and my wife and I, most days after the work is done, we just turn on our smartTV and as Phil says it, “Now you’ve been filled in, ta-dan-cha.” You know? Now you’ve been filled in so we always get our news there. I also watch a lot of PewDiePie. I think it’s interesting, you know he is the largest and most subscribed YouTuber. And he has an interesting point of view on that and all those soon to be surpassed by a channel in India and he will no longer be the number one most subscribed YouTuber. And then for me, it’s all entrepreneurship and mindset content. So the Gary Vs, the Grant Cordones, a friend of ours Evan Carmichael has a great channel with a lot of motivational and inspirational entrepreneurship content and then there is also a lot of faith content for me. So whether that’s Steven Furtick or Judas Smith or Jaden Chavez from City Light, all these different channels like that is how I start my day or in my day usually on content that helps me dream bigger, see farther kind of inspires me or helps me deal with things going on in my heart or life.

[0:39:31] CH: Beautiful and just to share, I will share one. I like to unwind here and then with H3H3. They’re friends with PewDiePie. They make some good stuff here and there that is just hysterical but they don’t –

[0:39:43] BT: I think they have some great guests too.

[0:39:45] CH: Oh yeah.

[0:39:47] SC: They’re amazing and I feel they care for people and they’re not afraid to call people out with real truth though. They’re passionate about calling it how it is and yeah, I really love those guys.

[0:39:56] CH: Yeah and I love that YouTube has catapulted people like Jordan Peterson into the stratosphere that has given rise to an intellectual, where YouTube used to be known for, I don’t know little quirky funny videos. It is such a huge platform for everybody. So your book has all this great information in part one which is the strategy. Now I want to dive in a little bit on tactics. Now I am not going to give away everything in the book. There is stuff in here on leveraging social media, attracting your audience on autopilot. I want to talk about collaboration because I think this is a huge one that people often skip or overlook as a way - as you say to grow your audience exponentially. Talk to me about YouTube collaboration.

[0:40:53] BT: I say that collaboration is literarally the second best way to grow your influence second only to the really unattainable which is viral videos. So going for viral videos is not something we recommend even though it works, right? Like you go viral.

[0:41:09] CH: Why is that? I mean you can engineer virality depending on how good you are as a marketer.

[0:41:18] BT: Absolutely but the ROI and the success rate is very low and we want to speak to everybody not everybody is a marketer and I think that’s the point of the book. We are trying to reach people that have never done YouTube, right? Obviously our book, I do believe not just marketers but even seasoned YouTubers can learn a lot because sometimes you forget about some of the basic principles that made you successful. But going viral is just something that it’s very calculated. There is a lot of strategy and a lot of hustle that we feel most people could spend that time in other places including collaboration. This is the reason why I love collaboration. Number one, obviously if you collaborate with somebody that’s got a larger influence and aligned audience, you could potentially grow and influence yourself and a lot of people might be afraid to reach out to them because they don’t know. What do I have to offer? But oftentimes, you as a creator if you are willing to hustle maybe you can help edit or come up with ideas. A second form of collaboration, it was somebody as a similar audience as yours that’s the same size. So just because they don’t have more subscribers doesn’t mean they don’t have subscribers that don’t know about you and you’ll find a much better success rate connecting with people like that because everybody wants to work with influencers and YouTubers and creators that have a bigger audience. But oftentimes the people that are hustling the most will go to events, meet other people with similar content, similar audiences and they’ll collaborate oftentimes on the spot. And it is a great way to build your influence, which we all know even though views start with your content and searchability, discoverability around optimization, when you connect with somebody else that already has an established audience and they have a trust with their audience that referral is powerful for growing your channel.

[0:43:12] CH: Let me ask you two, how have you found the YouTube community of creators because I mean no matter what industry you’re in, you have good people and bad people but generally speaking, I mean do most successful YouTube creators really have their heart in the right place or do they get their head confused and wrapped up in the fame. I mean what is it like?

[0:43:35] SC: I think there’s probably different tiers and to be honest, YouTube has now crossed over a little bit at the highest levels into basically Hollywood and so there’s mega super stars, like triple A list type of YouTube influencers. But if we are not discussing that group and again, that’s always up to the individual, we would not judge anybody’s heart but what we’ve learned is that actually YouTube by nature is a pretty collaborative community, it was organically built. And so as Benji mentioned, I think one of the best things that anybody who’d want to take YouTube serious should do is try to get to a VidCon. Try to get to a PlaylistLive. Even if you’re an entrepreneur and those are kind of more fan entertainment based events, immersion into the culture of anything is going to give you new ounce insights that you wouldn’t be able to get anywhere else and what we’ve learned is that is when you get boots in the ground, it’s funny because we are talking about online video. And one of the best ways I think to succeed an online video is build offline relationships and connections and so we’ve learned that it is a very – I guess it just depends though Charlie. It’s like anything, there’s good people and bad people in any industry. There is people that are all in it for themselves for others in any industry but by and large, we found that YouTube to be a very collaborative industry and we’ve made so many great friendships and relationships at these events. And over the past four years, we’ve been to over 20 industry events. So we have spent a lot of time at the conferences, the expos and the meet ups.

[0:45:05] CH: And you guys are going to be hosting your own events alongside with this book coming out, right?

[0:45:10] BT: Absolutely, in fact in less than two weeks our first event will be in Seattle October 6th and we have three other cities, LA, Provo, Utah, Las Vegas and you know just like Sean said, we are looking to connect with people and we hope that people that attend our event also can connect with each other and network and hopefully collaborate. Because again, like Sean said sometimes the offline relationships are what buds those collaborations that will do magic for your channels.

[0:45:42] CH: So what are these events going to be called, where do people go to sign up and pay to go, that sort of thing?

[0:45:49] SC: Yeah, so all of the information is at tubesecretsbook.com and actually, tubesecretsbook.com/tour will have all of the dates there. They are all free, there are going to be YouTube strategy workshops as well as meet ups, just a chance to connect with other likeminded creators and entrepreneurs and yeah, they are entirely free and they’ll be very valuable and a great chance to connect.

[0:46:13] CH: Awesome and what are the other ways just to reiterate best ways to follow you guys and connect with you?

[0:46:19] BT: So for me personally it’s @benjimantv on all social media. You can also obviously find me on my YouTube channel video influencers. That’s where we have weekly interviews with other creators as well as tips videos weekly.

[0:46:40] SC: Yes and I’m @seancannell on all platforms and seancannell.com is that top level where all the stuff that we’re doing is at.

[0:46:54] CH: So the final question for you two is give our listeners a challenge. What is the one thing they can do from your book YouTube Secrets this week that will have a positive impact on their life?

[0:47:06] BT: For me that would be clarity and the reason is because it would impact your life regardless of if you are going to be on the platform of YouTube or on social media in general because I think I a lot of people live their life based on what other people feel they should be living and if you have a little clarity on what was important to you. So a lot of people tell me, “I don’t have a passion. I don’t know how to find my passion,” and one of the easiest ways to do that is ask yourself, what do you have fun doing? What do you look forward to on the weekends? What gets you excited and energized? And then build upon that and be as clear as possible on what your intentions are and if you apply those things to your YouTube channel, you’re going to have a lot more success with the best practices obviously that we teach in the book and the things that you are going to learn as an influencer on YouTube uploading online videos.

[0:48:04] SC: Yeah and Charlie, I would say that we definitely hope everybody gets the book but whether someone picks the book up or not that’s not what’s most important to us. What’s most important to us is that people join this online video revolution. It is really a revolution and there is a window of opportunity right now to grow your influence, to grow your income that you want to maximize and so I want to challenge people. If they have never uploaded a video and you’re listening to this, you have not uploaded a video, I want your first video uploaded to YouTube in the next 48 hours. “Uh…” no, no the next 48 hours. No excuses. You already have a smart phone. It shoots HD video and here is the cool thing Charlie, all you’ve got to do is pick your phone out and it will be like our first videos. “Hey, Sean here. I don’t even know what I’m doing and I am just doing a challenge. I am going to start a YouTube channel.” And here’s the cool thing, I just want you to upload it in the next 48 hours. You decide if you want to make it public or not but the process of figuring out how to do that and then just logging in on your phone, so many people overthink things, right? They overthink and they feel like they need all of this information before they get started. No, you want to just press that record button and get that first video out because you can build from there. Make progress from there. So that is a 48 hour challenge. Tweet me and let me know if you did it because again, you don’t have to make it public but shoot it on your phone upload it to YouTube. I don’t have a channel. Create a channel. How do you create a channel? Go to Google “how to create a YouTube channel,” it’s all right there. You’ve just got to punch fear in the face and press record.

[0:49:32] CH: Yes, I love it. As they say, done is better than perfect. So that is a phenomenal challenge. It has been so fun talking to you both Sean and Benji. I wish you both the best and the book is YouTube Secrets you can get it on Amazon now. Thank you guys.

[0:49:50] BT: Thank you, appreciate your time.

[0:49:52] SC: Thanks Charlie.

[0:49:53] CH: Thanks so much again to Sean and Benji and be sure to grab a copy of their book, YouTube Secrets. It is on Amazon, check it out. Thanks for tuning in on today’s show. If you liked what you heard, here is what I want you to do next. Open up the podcast app on your phone or iTunes on your computer and search for “Author Hour with Charlie Hoehn” and then click “ratings and reviews”. Take 10 seconds to rate this show or leave a review. It is a small favor but it’s really the best way to show your support and give me feedback and if you know someone else who’d love Author Hour, take another three seconds to text them a link to this episode. We’ll see you next time.