Thom Bond: Episode 42

Transcript

[0:00:29] Charlie Hoehn: You’re listening to Author Hour, enlightening conversations about books with the authors who wrote them. I’m Charlie Hoehn. Today’s episode is about the book Nonviolent Communication, which has sold more than a million copies worldwide and has been translated into 30 languages. How often do you find yourself being judged or judging others? Blaming someone? Criticizing yourself? Name-calling? Being defensive for judging who’s good or bad, or what's right or wrong? Violent communication is a huge problem, because it means we are hurting each other in ourselves. We’re disconnecting, but nonviolent communication shows us a better way of being honest without any criticism or insults or putdowns and without deciding that something is wrong. The author of the book, Dr. Marshall Rosenberg, sadly passed away a few years ago, so this conversation is with Thom Bond. He’s the founder of the New York Center for Nonviolent Communication. This conversation can save your marriage, it could save your job, it can even save your life. Now, here is our conversation with Thom Bond.

[0:02:01] Thom Bond: When I was pretty young, I was 12. I actually — I remember so clearly picking up Life Magazine. In that Life Magazine there were photographs of what was known as the Myelin Massacre. It was the first time in my life that I had seen the reality of war to that extent, like what people were actually out there doing to one another. It was really a life changer for me, because I was in shock, basically, in shock that this is really, really happening and that people can do this to one another. Simultaneously I thought, “Oh! This is crazy,” because this is not a necessity. This isn’t something that has to happen. There’s got to be another way for us to be living out our lives so this doesn’t happen. I do remember very clearly talking to the grown-ups and they all — It’s amazing. They were all like, “No. No. This is what we do here. This is a part of life.” That was a real moment for me, because I really departed from that. I was like, “No. I refuse to agree with that.” Here, I was 12. I really didn't know how that was going to happen, right? Like, “Why?” When I read this book, it was like 30 something years later. I read this book tells and I was like, “Whoa! There it is.” Basically, what it was is that this is incredibly simple idea and it’s this thing that I really do consider probably the greatest discovery of the 20th century, which is what Marshal came up with. That is if we can pay attention to it — We call it like in the big picture life energy, but how do you turn that into like real words? Well, it's our feelings and our needs. It's very simple that we can approach life from this perspective that everybody's doing the best they can and that we all share feelings and needs and that what we’re trying to do is meet our needs. What happens is that we often, or we can, cause harm to others in the pursuit of those needs. What Marshall figured out is that, “Wait. Wait. Instead of making people wrong when that happens, what we need to do is say, “Wait a minute. Let's pay attention to our needs so that we could reorganize and do this in a way that’s not causing harm.” What we do now is we make enemies out of the people who are causing harm and then we break off and then we end up — That is what war is all about, right? It’s about the enemy. When I read this chapter, I was like, “Whoa! This is it.” He figured out a way to look at somebody or some group of people that have done things that are absolutely horrible, absolutely horrible and still be able have some sense of connection and compassion when it comes to that relationship. Not that it’s easy to do this, but he figured out a way for us to really focus our attention so that we’re more likely to be able to come up with solutions and more likely to see each other this way and therefore more likely to even want to come up with solutions. That was huge for me. I was like, “This is it. Thank you. I’ve been looking for this for so long.” In other words, here it is, a set of concepts, ideas, practices that we can activate and start changing how it is we go about being humans when we’re in conflict and in such a way that we could actually make war obsolete – certainly war obsolete and violence greatly diminished and also much more temporary.

[0:06:22] Charlie Hoehn: Wow! Before we tackle how can we make war obsolete, which I should probably prioritize over the question I have to ask. I am curious, on a personal level, what happened to you after that book? You said you were in a relationship that you were struggling with the communication and both of [inaudible 0:06:45.1] book. How did your life change after you read Nonviolent Communication?

[0:06:50] Thom Bond: It’d almost be easier to talk about the parts that didn't change. What happened for me was — First of all, I became very involved in the learning of this work. Back in — It was 2001, 2002, there were maybe a handful of people in New York that knew about it. It was mainly a West Coast phenomenon at that point. I did make a great effort. I was a trainer. My background is in engineering and science, and I was a trainer in those fields. I started setting my sights on learning Marshall’s work and in fact ended up in a car next to him in just a few months driving around New York.

[0:07:36] Charlie Hoehn: Did you recognize him?

[0:07:37] Thom Bond: Well, I became in contact and through the folks in California I ended up in contact with him and he came to New York. It was a pretty odd experience to read his book and next thing I know I’m in a car next to this guy. I picked him up at the airport.

[0:07:57] Charlie Hoehn: Oh! Okay.

[0:07:59] Thom Bond: [inaudible 0:08:00.6].

[0:08:01] Charlie Hoehn: I thought you were in a car next to his car.

[0:08:04] Thom Bond: No. I was actually in his presence. It was just that easy. It happened that quickly.

[0:08:13] Charlie Hoehn: People don’t realize how easy it is to meet their author, their favorite authors.

[0:08:18] Thom Bond: We were fast friends as they say. I would say before we got out of LaGuardia Airport — Actually, it was JFK. Before we got out of the airport I already had this amazing sense of friendship. We both have an odd sense of humor and, yeah, we just hit it off. He knew that I knew. It’s very interesting. He knew that I got what he was offering. Not everybody does. A lot of folks think it's a system or a method to get through fights with your friends, which I mean it does do that, but it doesn't come from a system. It comes from a rethinking of how we’re looking at one another.

[0:09:02] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah. Tell me more about how did your life start to transform in ways that you previously hadn’t experienced?

[0:09:13] Thom Bond: Yeah. Certainly, I think the first phase for me was shifting out of how — If we’re going to look at basically how we’d live life. A lot of us, myself included, do things because we think we should, because it’s the right thing to do. Really, just because we — It's a good thing to do. It's the right thing, you should do it. That's a different perspective than what Marshall brought, and it’s what most of us grow up with, really. We did things because you should, and you shouldn’t do that. We have thousands of things like that. What Marshall came up with is that we start looking at what it is that we desire. What are the needs? Basically, how he put it into words is what are the needs that we’re all trying to fulfill? There's a list. There’s a page of them, and you can look at them. Needs like love, needs are creativity, needs like air, needs like water. What happens is, instead of looking at what we’re doing based on what we should do, we start looking at what is it that I value? What is it that I want to have happening in my life and in the world? Do I want more creativity? Do I want more self-care? Do I want more consideration? Do I want to give more? Get more? He gave us this new framework to start looking at how we go about living life, and that's what I did. I started looking at not what I should or shouldn't do. Those are inherited ideas that have nothing to do with me, or very little, potentially, and in fact could be harmful for me. It certainly is alienating from myself and from others. So much of the conflict that we experience comes from those very ideas of should and shouldn’t. I started living from this other place noticing what is important to me and what do I want to experience in this life. I started noticing certain things like self-care. One of the things that many of us are taught is to be selfless. I started noticing that, “Well, I think I might want take better care of myself.” That became probably the first major campaign in my life that came about, because of the shift in perspective.

[0:11:47] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah. How did that look?

[0:11:50] Thom Bond: Funny you should ask. It actually did very much look like something, and the way that happened was — I love how this work works. I'm sitting there on my couch in my apartment in New York and I’m thinking, “I just don't feel that great right now. I would love — I would just love some nurturing. It's just been so long. I wasn't in a relationship and I didn't live with my parents anymore.” I was like, “I just kind of miss nurturing.” I started thinking about, “What is nurturing even look like?” Like you said, what does it look like? What it looked like, in this case, was me looking around me and noticing that my apartment had happened to me. It didn't really feel like it was my apartment, my home. What I did was I redecorated my apartment. It looked like Thom getting a new apartment.

[0:12:53] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah. Wow! What kind of stuff did you do?

[0:12:56] Thom Bond: Let’s see. I painted one wall. The color that the sky becomes just before a thunderstorm hits, one of my favorite colors in the world. Again, this comes from being able to pay attention to what is it that I love. I also found a color for a different wall that was like a terra-cotta, deep orange, very warm, beautiful color that reminded me of the bricks of the side of my home. It reminded me of all sorts of wonderful things. That was another aspect. I removed the things that I had just happened into. It was kind of a feng-shui operation. When I was done, I remember sitting in that same spot. Actually, the couch stayed but everything else changed, and thinking, “Yes. This is it,” and feeling it. Knowing that I actually had provided nurturing for myself, which is really empowering as you could imagine. It was wonderful, because people loved it there. It was a wonderful place to be. It was nurturing space. It had a lot of color, beautiful lighting.

[0:14:09] Charlie Hoehn: Not bad. I guess I don't want to get too far down the track of how this manifested your life without asking the important question; how can we make war obsolete? How does this actually work?

[0:14:26] Thom Bond: Yeah. First you have to say, “What is it that we’re trying to accomplish with war?” Right?

[0:14:32] Charlie Hoehn: Right.

[0:14:32] Thom Bond: The thing is we’re going to do what we’re going to do. We’re all trying to meet our needs and that is the imperative of life. We’re not going to stop people, or if we try to stop people from meeting their needs, they’re going to want to — That's the equivalent of stopping somebody from living. So that's going to create conflict and often violence. Let’s backed up. What are we trying to do with war? What’s the bottom line? Are we trying to create safety? Are we trying to become economically more viable? What is it that we’re up to in this pursuit? By looking at what that is, not in the framework of because you're evil or because you're the axis of evil or you’re a religious fanatic or you’re a sexist or a racist or blah-blah-blah-blah-blah. No. It's just because we're human beings, all of us trying to accomplish the same thing. If we can see each other that way, if we go, “Okay. Well, hmm — We have another way of doing it. We don’t have to kill each actually. What we could do is figure out what the needs are that we’re trying to meet by killing each other and think of a different way to meet those needs. I know that sounds crazy simple, and I can tell you it is, but it's also crazy difficult. I do mediation work, and I can tell you it does work, if you can bring your consciousness to this place. Also, very important, if you want to resolve. If you don't want to resolve a problem, having a mediation, it doesn’t really help. That's one of the first things that — Again, I love what Marshall did, and that is he asks us to ask ourselves, “What do I want? What do I love? What do I want to see happening on this planet?” Then figure out how can I achieve that. Now, that is an entirely different thought process, then how can I stop those evil people.

[0:16:38] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah.

[0:16:39] Thom Bond: See, in Marshall's world, I love this — In my world, there are no evil people. There really are not. There’s no such thing. Now, if you want there to be —

[0:16:49] Charlie Hoehn: [inaudible 0:16:50.5] people.

[0:16:51] Thom Bond: Right. They’re just people, and there are folks that are in pain. It’s so interesting. I go back and I can think I've never seen somebody do something that I found really important, unless they were in pain. I've never seen anybody like these movie characters that we’re shown on television that don't exist. What exists is people in pain. I have a choice, right? That's what Marshall did, he gave us a choice. I can see you as somebody in pain who’s acting in ways that certainly don't meet needs, so let's figure out how to meet those needs differently. Or I can see you as an evil person. I can see you as a fanatic. I can see you as somebody who's out to get me. I can see as the enemy. We now have an alternative.

[0:17:42] Charlie Hoehn: Thom, let's make it practical for the listener. What can they do this week? How they can practice nonviolent communication? What’s kind of the first step?

[0:17:55] Thom Bond: Well, as somebody’s who’s been teaching this for over 15 years now, the first step is to really get that this exists and to be interested. If you're not interested, don't bother. If you're interested, then the first step is certainly to read Marshall’s book. Go get a copy and read the book. Let’s just try a practice. Let’s not take on reading a whole book. Let’s just try a practice. Let's imagine —I have an online exercise that anybody can do. It’s called theexercise.org, and so that will give you an experience of what we’re talking about here. It has a list of the feelings. It has a list of needs and it's a little guided exercise.

[0:18:44] Charlie Hoehn: Theexercise.org.

[0:18:46] Thom Bond: Yes. Two Es in a row there, right? One from “the” and the other one from “exercise”, and so there’s two words pushed together, .org. That will actually can give you — A lot of people actually get this shift. That is what happens when we start changing what it is we pay attention to. See, the thing is we get to focus our minds wherever we want. That’s the first thing to even understand. If we realize that focusing in one-way creates different effect than focusing on another way, that's the first part is to say, “Wow! I actually can do something. I’m empowered. I’m not given my thoughts. I can choose them.” In that vein, let's try this. Just imagine, just look around and wonder what need someone’s trying to meet, randomly? Like right now, what needs are we meeting? What needs is somebody listening to this podcast meeting? I have a feeling both of us meeting a need for purpose and meaning right now. Certainly, meeting a need for communication and understanding. Our listeners are probably meeting a need for growth and learning. Yeah. Right? We can start. Let's start looking at what is it that we’re up to? The thing is — I love this. There's no — Without exception, at least this is my story, right? There’s a need always, always, always. In other words, every single thing we do we do to meet a need. Just starting to see if we can make that shift in our own minds would be a great thing to do, because then you start experiencing it inside your life. You don’t have to believe me. You don’t have to believe Marshall. You don’t have to believe anybody. All you have to do is think this way and you'll figure it out for yourself if this works.

[0:20:47] Charlie Hoehn: Author Hour is sponsored by Book in a Box. For anyone who has a great idea for a book but doesn’t have the time or patience to sit down and type it out, Book in a Box has created a new way to help you painlessly publish your book. Instead of sitting at a computer and typing for a year, hoping everything works out, Book in a Box takes you through a structured interview process that gets your ideas out of your head and into a book in just a few months. To learn more, head over to bookinabox.com and fill out the form at the bottom of the page. Don’t let another year go by where you put off writing your book. I’m thinking, Thom, why do we sacrifice our needs so often? I'll give you a personal example. Sleep sometimes is the first need that gets sacrificed in the name of getting just a little bit extra done or staying up and having a bit of fun or watching a movie or something. Sleep is maybe one of the deepest needs we have. We can only go two hours for every hour of sleep that we need. Why do we sacrifice needs?

[0:22:07] Thom Bond: Because other needs are more important in that moment. To me, it’s that simple. That’s awesome, because just let me find out what those needs are. When I do that, then I open up this kind of creative mojo where I can think of, “Wow! I could probably meet that need some other way,” or I could say, “You know what? I can live with a little less sleep. I’m young, I'm cool.” It just brings us to an awareness. I think the decisions that we make, we’re not even making them consciously really if we think about it, unless we bring ourselves this awareness of needs. I love that question, and you could answer that question once you became aware more once you become more and more aware of needs, which are really, by the way — You could say, “Oh! What’s this big deal with needs?” I ask one question; what do you call somebody without needs?

[0:23:06] Charlie Hoehn: Dead? I don’t know.

[0:23:08] Thom Bond: Yeah! You got it! A lot of people say enlightened, but even enlightened people breathe. Though need, this word, which has a strange connotation for a lot of us. Really, what Marshall meant when he used that word is that it's our life. It's the life force. It's the impulses of life and we share that, by the way, that it’s so universal. That is why I can connect to a terrorist if I needed to. Put me in a room with any human being, and I know we have a lot in common no matter what they've done, no matter what they believe. I know we have a lot in common, because we’re both humans and we share this amazing set of needs together.

[0:23:57] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah.

[0:23:58] Thom Bond: That’s a place we’d meet.

[0:24:00] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah. I completely agree with you that this is simple on an intellectual standpoint and even largely on an emotional level, I feel that compassion with people who’ve done the worst things. I’m friends with people who’ve spent a lot of time in prison and done a lot of terrible stuff. I know at the core they’re good people that were in bad circumstances. Like you said, they weren’t getting their needs met. On the other, I also know, like you said, that this is incredibly difficult. I struggle sometimes with feeling very disconnected, even rageful toward an individual that I feel that I can't communicate with for whatever reason. So I turned inward and I keep it to myself I stay angrier, which I just don't like. I don't like that, and I’ve tried journaling. I’ve tried therapy. I've tried hitting a punching bag, and these things worked for a little bit, but I'd really love to get to the place of connection, compassion the you're talking about.

[0:25:14] Thom Bond: Exactly. That vision. Get your needs glasses on, right? Once you can see that — The term is self-empathy. What is it that I'm loving that has me so pissed off right now? What do I love? What is so important to me? What do I want so dearly in my life and on this planet that I feel this pissed off? Until we do that, we’re kind of in the room, in a dark room, right? We’re just feeling pissed off, we don’t even know why. It's when we can start making that connection between the fact that I’m angry or I have a judgment, and that that means that I have a need. It means I have an unmet need. If I'm angry at somebody, I know I have an unmet need. I just have to figure out what it is, so that I can address it in a different way than being angry at somebody. My background is in engineering, so this is perfect for anybody who wants to engineer a life, right? If you want to design a life that that's the way you want it to be, this is empowering in that regard.

[0:26:29] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah. Let me ask you, Thom, if only one copy of Nonviolent Communication existed in the world, who would you want to give it to?

[0:26:38] Thom Bond: Somebody with a really good copy machine.

[0:26:43] Charlie Hoehn: Give it to Jeff Bezos. Yeah.

[0:26:47] Thom Bond: Yeah. Somebody who obviously had the distribution, because I love this work and it might be obvious by now. Yeah, I just want it to get out there.

[0:26:58] Charlie Hoehn: Let's talk about the people that it has reached in their transformations. I was thinking this is obviously a book that would be helpful for international and global political leaders and anybody who's interacting with different cultures. It’s hugely important to be good neighbors to other countries. Can you tell me about some of the transformations that readers have had, whether it's people in positions of power or even just families?

[0:27:31] Thom Bond: I guess the one that just pops right into my head is a couple who’s getting divorced that I was working with and they had three children. When I met them they were in intense conflict. The father had no visitation rights with the children and the mother was suffering financially. As far as they were concerned, they were ruining each other's lives and couldn't even look at each other. When we met, what I did was I simply brought their focus right to Marshall’s work, and so what I did was I said, “Look. Is it that you're needing safety?” “Yes.” “Is it that you’re needing security?” “Yes.” “is it that you’re needing connection?” “Yes.” We were able to identify these things that were so important and getting everybody so upset and so in conflict and start seeing them as just simply the energies that they are, which are unto themselves are just simply beautiful and amazing. Nobody complains about connection. Nobody complains about love, security. At one point they actually looked at each other, and at a point after that they were able to name each other's needs. Once that happened, once they were able to name each other’s needs, they were able to come up with a plan so that they could both have their children in their lives and their sense of security back. They figured out how to do it and it was because they had the will once they saw each other as humans with needs just like you, just like me, just like one another. To this day, I mean there's a family now that's way more functional for years now and as a father who knows his children, who might not if it weren’t for this. That’s one thing.

[0:29:41] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah. That’s a very powerful example. This conversation has made me think of this story. I cannot remember which book I read this in. It may have been — I don’ think it was Be Here Now, but a similar book to it where this monk was describing, basically, nonviolent communication, and he said, “The further two souls feel apart, the more they have to yell at each other, because they’re so distant. But the more two souls feel connected, they barely have to communicate with words. They can just know with a look.”

[0:30:24] Thom Bond: Yeah, and this is the how to. To me, that was the big thing. I think we knew this for so many years, but how do we get from where we are now with all the media and just the rapid culture that we created almost overnight. How do we go back to these hundred years old wisdom that this [inaudible 0:30:45.5]. I actually think Marshall figured it out. He’s like, “Alright. Here’s how you do it people. Pay attention to these things and watch what happens.”

[0:30:56] Charlie Hoehn: What would happen if journalists read this book, if they brought it to their work?

[0:31:04] Thom Bond: It’s just a matter of time. I mean, everybody — This is for all human beings. Ultimately, I'm pretty clear that — I know this is growing, so I don't understand why this work would ever stop growing. It’s just simply a matter of time before one of our presidents who was raised by parents who practice this. Or a journalist, or a writer starts making part of how they see the world. It’s going to start to change what it is we talk about and what we’re interested in. It's calling on us to be as proactive probably as we’ve ever been in our entire history on the planet. Because up to this point we could act any way we wanted to and never endanger the planet, right? Now, that’s just not true anymore. Its almost become an imperative for us.

[0:32:06] Charlie Hoehn: How did Marshall figure this out? What’s the backstory behind the book?

[0:32:11] Thom Bond: First of all, he was raised in Detroit and he was a tough guy. He would get into fights. He is a hockey player, but he’s also a really bright, bright guy. He ended up going through college and becoming a — I know he was involved in Civil Rights a bit. He was actually I think had long hair. He wrote protest songs. As he got through college, he became a therapist, a psychoanalyst actually. Basically after — I don’t remember how many years of that, but he hated the job and didn't really feel like he was accomplishing anything. He was drawn to his life work, which was simply figuring out what brought us together. What are the things that bring us together and what drives us apart. He kind of went on this journey of talking about that and learning about that and went kind of on the road. I know folks that had worked with him back in the late 60s in universities and he kind of hit the trail and started developing and, again, teaching this all along the way. In, I guess it was about 2000, maybe 1998, he kind of hit a spike and all of a sudden he became popular all over the place. That’s, I guess, when the second edition of his book came out. Yeah, it just caught on. I guess we were more ready than we had been before. Also, he had really perfected what we call model as a teaching tool and he had put that in the book as well. Just, yeah, poof! He was one of the hardest working folks I ever met. When people asked him where he lived, he’d say Lufthansa. He traveled that much. He’s, like I said, a real hard worker.

[0:34:24] Charlie Hoehn: Can you share one more of your favorite success stories of people who’ve been affected by the book?

[0:34:33] Thom Bond: Yeah. One of them is me, if that’s okay.

[0:34:37] Charlie Hoehn: Yes! Please.

[0:34:40] Thom Bond: It may seem pretty insignificant, but it’s never felt that way to me or to the other guy in the story. I lived on the upper West side of Manhattan. I loaned my car to a friend of mine. I was one of these crazy people that has a car in Manhattan. Anyway, I loaned my friend my car so that she could move. I’m waiting, she said she’d bring the car back and I’m waiting on my couch to get a call. It's 2:00 in the morning. Next thing I know I’m like woken up on the phone, 2:00 in the morning, “Yeah, Thom. By the way, I left your car in Meatpacking.” I was like, “Are my golf clubs in the car?” “Oh, yeah! Yeah. Yeah. They’re there. Don’t worry.” “In plain sight?” “Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.” I was like, “Okay.” After a little self-empathy, realized I’d better hit it and go rescue my car and my club. I go out to the street, by this time is 2:30 in the morning. It’s pouring rain. I grabbed a cab. We’re driving down the West Side and all I can see of this cabdriver is his eyes in the rearview mirror. We’re kind of going down. The West Side goes right along the Hudson River and we pass the Intrepid, which is an old battleship turned into a museum. He says, “The last time I saw that, I was in Vietnam.” Interesting thing to say. I’m just in the car and just thinking, “What must be going on for somebody who just said? What need is alive in them? What does this bring up?” It just came to me. I said, “That just must bring up a lot for you.” He didn’t really say much. He didn’t say anything right away, but I’m making this eye contact in this rearview mirror. I felt like I was in a movie. He said, “When we got back, they hated us.” Now, why did he say that to me? What was going on here? Again, I’m like, “What's going on for this man?” I’m like, “Wow!” Again, a couple of minutes, I’m like, “What's going on?” It finally came to me. I was like, “Wow! It probably would have been great if you got just even a little bit of appreciation for risking your life like that.” Again, no response right away, but still the silence and I got to say it was weird, because the West Side highway is made out of cement, so it goes, “Bu-bump! Bu-bump! Be-bump!” when you’re driving on it. I’m just listening to this heartbeat, really, and looking at this guy in the rearview mirror and finally he says, “Yeah. Yeah, it would have been.” After that, it was just simply eye contact in this rearview mirror. He started crying. I started tearing up, just getting in touch with this guy’s incredible experience. I don't know why, but here we are talking about it at 2:30 in the morning in a cab, and I know why. It’s because of how I get to see people now and how that vision helps open up communication that just won’t be there otherwise. Eventually, we just get to the place, and it was funny because I gave him the money I said thank you, and in my head I’m like thinking, “No. This means thank you. I mean this means really thank you,” and I said that way, not just thank you for the ride, but thank you for risking your life. I get out of the car, I’m heading to my car and I hear the door open, and this guy is walking over to me. He’s got his hand and he like grabs my hand and he’s like, “Thank you,” and shakes my hand. “Thank you,” he says. Thank you, Marshall. He gave that. This work gives you that. It gives you the ability to make that level of connection with people. I have many stories like that, by the way, some with people who are super dear to me, some with people who are total strangers. It’s changed how it is I get to go about moving around here on the planet. It’s a big stuff. It really is big stuff, and it does take commitment and work, because we have had a lot of training, thinking should, shouldn’t thoughts and things like that. It’s work, and it does work. It has a result.

[0:39:07] Charlie Hoehn: That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that story.

[0:39:10] Thom Bond: Yeah. It’s been a while. It’s fun to even remember.

[0:39:14] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah. I can imagine us going on for a while just sharing — They’re so human and, yeah, I love that. It really is a superpower that anybody can have access to learn about it and try it.

[0:39:32] Thom Bond: Yeah, exactly.

[0:39:33] Charlie Hoehn: Thom this has been a wonderful conversation. Do you have maybe a challenge for people listening, apart from picking up Nonviolent communication and reading it? I would say going to theexercise.org and giving that a shot?

[0:39:53] Thom Bond: Yeah. What I like about that exercise, the reason I even designed it was because it gives you an immediate personal experience of this. You don’t have to do anything. You just write some things down and it’ll either work for you or it won't. That's the important part, because why study something that doesn’t work for you? That's the whole idea with this.

[0:40:17] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah. I’m going to do it. What is the best way that our listeners can connect with you, follow you and Marshall and what you guys are doing?

[0:40:28] Thom Bond: Pretty much, if you just Google THOM BOND, I’m one of those Thom’s that puts an H in there. You can just Google me and I’m pretty much there. You can tap into our nycnvc.org, that’s the organization that I work with.

[0:40:48] Charlie Hoehn: [inaudible 0:40:48.4] Nonviolent Communication.

[0:40:51] Thom Bond: Communication, exactly. It’s actually New York Center, but yes. Yeah. That’s there, and then the Compassion Course. That's an international course that I wrote with 6,000 people in it this year. In a little over a hundred — I think it’s like 120 countries actually this year, but it’s my attempt at sharing how Marshall’s work has affected me and how it could affect you as well. That's another way to tap in if you want to note about what I’m doing.

[0:41:23] Charlie Hoehn: Yeah. I want to ask you, is there anything apart from sharing this message that our listeners might be able to help you guys with? What are your goals right now?

[0:41:34] Thom Bond: The main thing we’re paying attention to is what I call “taking people over the line”, which is about taking a good hard look at this and see if we have the wherewithal, the circumstances in life. Some of us are more prone to be able to do this than others. To take a look, just to please, find out about. Try it on like a coat, and if the coat doesn't work, then please don't wear the coat. We don't like wearing coats that don’t fit. If it does fit, and that’s — As an organization, as an individual, I'm looking for people who are interested in this. First, you got to find out what it is, which the exercise will give you an idea. Then if you're interested, find me. That's my purpose right now on this planet is to really support — Marshall died, I guess, two, three years ago now and am I just want to keep — It's really good medicine. I just want to keep it going. Find out, that would be the thing — The most effective thing you could do for us is to look at this and see if it's something that's of interest to you, and if it is then come on in. There’s plenty of material, there are books, there's workshops, there’s practice group. We’re very interested in helping people learn this. Again, find out about it. I guess that’s what I would say.

[0:43:08] Charlie Hoehn: Excellent. Thom, thank you so much again. This was phenomenal. Thank you.

[0:43:13] Thom Bond: Yeah, fun for me too. Thank you.

[0:43:16] Charlie Hoehn: Many thanks to Thom Bond for being on the show, and I mean that. Thank you. You can buy Dr. Rosenberg's book, Nonviolent Communication, on Amazon.com. Thanks again for listening to Author Hour, enlightening conversations about books with the authors who wrote them. We’ll see you next time.