Shu Matsuo: Episode 564

Transcript

[0:00:21] DA: Shu Matsuo post is a successful businessman in Japan, one of the most gender rigid nations on the planet. When he got married and chose to take his wife’s name, the opposition he encountered gave him the unexpected glimpse into a woman’s world. It gave him a taste of vulnerability, emotional connection, and the freedom he’d been craving all his life. Flowing seamlessly between his own journey, his wife’s journey, and their journey together, as they struggle to break the bonds of gender limitations. His new book, I Took Her Name is a powerful roadmap for defying expectations and becoming your authentic self. Hey listeners, my name is Drew Applebaum and I’m excited to be here today with Shu Matsuo Post. Author of I took her name, lessons from my journey to vulnerability, authenticity, and feminism. Shu, thank you for joining us, welcome to the Author Hour podcast.

[0:01:09] Shu Matsuo: Thank you, thanks for having me today Drew.

[0:01:11] DA: Let’s kick this off, why don’t you give us a rundown of your background?

[0:01:15] Shu Matsuo: I was born and raised in Japan, small town called Hiratsuka near Tokyo, until the age of 15. I moved to the US, California for high school and college and I moved there when I was 15 by myself actually, it wasn’t my parent’s job that took me there but it was my desire to move abroad at such a young age and I was living with a host family and really wanted to study English and at the time, I wanted to be a professional golfer so we thought southern California was a good choice. I went to high school in San Diego, I went to Pepperdine University, studied journalism and then moved to New York for a journalistic job. Which I ended up not liking after a few months and I got another job that flew me back to Tokyo Japan and I was there for a couple of years and then moved to Hong Kong with the job, ended up being there for five and a half years and that’s where I met my wife. Current wife and we’ve been back in Japan, it’s her first time living in Japan but for me, it’s coming back to Japan so – yeah, we’ve been there for three years and my unique story is that I took my wife’s name when we got married about three years ago.

[0:02:37] DA: Okay.

[0:02:37] Shu Matsuo: Technically, we decided to combine our last names so my name used to be just Matsuo and my wife’s name was Post and we decided to combine to Matsuo Post and we got married in San Diego three years ago and the day after our wedding, we went to the city hall and turned in our paper and that was it, it was super easy, right? When we moved to Japan, we wanted to do the same thing so the first opportunity, we got to go to the city hall and I went and then asked the person if I could change my name and that person was like no, you have to get approval from the family court. I was like, woah we just got married, isn’t family court supposed to be for people that are getting divorced? Yeah, I had so many hurdles that I had to go through. That’s one thing that really opened my eyes about changing one’s name and then, after finally getting approved, I had to change my passport, credit cards, driver’s license, you name it. It was very hectic and time-consuming which made me realize that so many women have done this before but I just felt like it was so time-consuming and that’s when it really hit me. Wow, no one really talks about this, or maybe women have been talking about this but men haven’t really paid attention because definitely, I didn’t know until that moment. Because my mom took my dad’s last name, all my friends growing up did the same thing. I didn’t know. That was my wake-up call to gender inequality in the culture that I grew up in and then you know, I started to think if I see gender inequality, in a once-in-a-lifetime activity like changing my name. What do I see in everyday life? That’s how I started my research and I started writing and yeah, I wrote this book to share what I found and shared my message.

[0:04:47] DA: Now, this happened to you a number of years ago. What was the inspiration to write the book and why was now the time to write it?

[0:04:54] Shu Matsuo: Like I said, I studied journalism and I love to write. I think writing is a great way to leave your legacy and you know, I always wanted to write a book and I didn’t know what the topic was going to be and when I was going through that name changing process, I kept thinking, this actually might be a really good topic to talk about, leave my legacy with and I want my children and grandchildren to know what I stand for. I really think they read this book and kind of laugh at the nonsense remarks I made in my book because the future is so much more equal than today. Really, truly, that’s my goal, I wanted to leave my legacy and I wanted to share this message. I think it’s very relevant today, we talk a lot about equality, whether it’s gender or race or class or you name it. I think it’s a topic that we all should be talking about and that’s why I wanted to write about this now.

[0:05:57] DA: Now, you kick off the book with a message to men and you say, since childhood, they’ve been told a lie. Let’s dive right in, well what is that lie?

[0:06:06] Shu Matsuo: It’s the lie that men-hood is supposed to be a certain way. I think we grew up with these cultural gender expectations that a boy is supposed to be this way, for example, a man should never cry. Men should be stoic, should never show emotions, we should all be dominant, in control financially stable, successful, all that stuff and it’s really a very narrow spectrum of what a man can be and it’s exhausting to try to live up to the standards that society has given to us. That’s the lie that I’m talking about.

[0:06:50] DA: Now, who is this book for? Is it for men only, can women read this book and can men who have found their way through this lie and pass this like and they also still learn from it?

[0:07:01] Shu Matsuo: Yeah, absolutely. I did write this book mainly for men and men who are struggling to break bounds of gender limitations but this book is pretty much for anyone who is ready to defy expectations and become their authentic self. I think when you break the gender expectations when you go outside of the cultural gender norms, you face a lot of criticism from society and people around you but what I’ve experienced is, the freedom to live the life that I really want. Not really caring about what people think about me, it’s been so refreshing and liberating.

[0:07:42] DA: Let’s go into those gender expectations and what are gender expectations these days and I think you read an interesting passage on how they actually hold people back?

[0:07:52] Shu Matsuo: Like I mentioned earlier, I think to be a man, there is like lots of norms in pretty much every culture and many culture share similar values especially for – I mean, both genders like men and women. There is not much in between, it’s pretty binary, historically speaking. Many men are very happy and are fine with the expectations that they have to live by but I know people like myself – I wasn’t okay with it. I want to feel more vulnerable. I want to feel like it’s okay to have a partner who is a breadwinner and she’s not a man, all those things. I think it’s super important to normalize those concepts and it’s not one way to live a life as a man, there can be many ways to live and people should be okay with it and our culture should accept many ways to live. I’m not saying like you know, one way, just go to the opposite end of the spectrum and focus on that, it’s more about accepting both sides and everything in between. It’s a choice, right? At the end of the day, it’s a choice that every individual has and I think it’s important for a culture to respect everyone’s choice of how they want to live their life.

[0:09:16] DA: Now you mentioned women being the breadwinner and sometimes this doesn’t go over well with men. Why do you think men see strong successful women as a threat?

[0:09:28] Shu Matsuo: I mean, it goes back to the gender norms, like men statistically speaking, men tend to be the primary breadwinner or sole breadwinner or sole income earner for many households around the world. That’s one concept that many people have in our heads. When you live by that belief and you’re not living up to that expectation, you start to feel there might be something not normal about what you’re doing if you have a breadwinning spouse. For me, it’s more income if your spouse is working and bringing in income and more – maybe more income than you are, that’s more income for the household which is a huge win. I mentioned this in my book. A lot of men are obsessed with passive income, the idea of passive income, right? You know, passive income is income earned by not something that you’re actively doing so if you have a job, that’s it, that’s active income but if you get an income stream from somewhere else, that tends to be passive income and if you look at your spouse’s income as your passive income, that should be a huge win. Obviously, it’s hard-earned money by your spouse but you know, when you kind of let go of that ego of I’m a man of the household and I should be earning more than my spouse, I think you feel a sense of relief and yeah, more money in your pocket for you household.

[0:11:09] DA: What can someone expect when they shift their mindset and open up and become more vulnerable?

[0:11:17] Shu Matsuo: I can tell you from my personal experience, you start to feel more joy in your life and that’s what I am experiencing actually. So my wife and I just welcomed our son in September and it’s been so much joy and you know with him, once we found out that she was pregnant with him, I decided to take paternity leave. So I am on seven-month paternity leave right now as we speak and I had a fear of not having a job or not working during this time. And I wasn’t sure how I was going to feel about this even though I’ve been preaching and talking about this for the past few years, right? But at the same time, I get to hang out with my son all day every day. Every day is like Saturday, it is kind of a cliché but it’s true and you know I get a lot of joy out of it. If I was working full-time I don’t know if I could feel the same way as I am right now because I would be so preoccupied with my work and when I come home after a long day of work, he might be sleeping. And I might not get the time with him and so on. So this is one example of how I am experiencing joy by kind of living out of the societal gender expectations but there are many other examples of doing what you want to do because that’s what you chose to do. Often times, there is this descriptive life that I felt like I had to live, live by as a man only because I am a man.

[0:13:00] DA: Let’s talk about the word feminist. I think many people support women’s rights but shy away from the word feminists and I equate it to running for office and saying you are for social programs but you don’t want to be labeled as socialist. People hate that word. Can you define for everyone what feminism really means and why we shouldn’t shy away from it?

[0:13:24] Shu Matsuo: Yeah, so feminism is about a belief that women and men are equal and that’s it. It is not about men hating or being aggressive or anything like that. It is just believing in gender equality. So if you believe in gender equality, you are technically a feminist. It is important to use that word. I used to think like why do we have to use that word? Because it sounds feminine so maybe it is for just women but it can be for everyone including men obviously. We have to name a problem when we are talking about issues and the problem is women have been oppressed for a very, very long time. So it is important to address that, acknowledge that. I think at the end of day, everyone wants to be an equalist, humanist per se. You know everyone wants to fight for equality for everything, promote diversity but feminism is specifically for about gender. Promoting female empowerment and at the same time, it is also freeing men, the culture gender expectations that we have been trapped in.

[0:14:38] DA: Now you broke the book up into four parts. Can you talk about those parts and why you chose to break it up into those four respective parts?

[0:14:47] Shu Matsuo: The first part is my story. So how I got to where I am today, so my journey into feminism. The second part is her story, so how patriarchy hurts women and the history of feminism and part three is his story, so how feminism can save men as well and how patriarchy hurts men as well and then the last part is our story, how we both women and men can work together to achieve gender equality. I did that so that like I said earlier, it is a book for men. But I do think more women might actually be interested in this topic initially and hoping that they’ll read it and give it to the men in their life who they think might benefit from what’s in this book. So yeah I want it to spread out this message to both men and women and that’s why I want it to be inclusive and have a section about women and have a section about men as well.

[0:15:59] DA: Have you seen a shift in this lately and how does this differ in different cultures? And I love that you can speak about this from Japan where you currently live and grow up and also from your experience in the United States.

[0:16:12] Shu Matsuo: I lived in the US for about nine years and when I moved from Japan to the US and Japan is a very homogenous country and I was part of the majority, right? And so when I moved, I felt like I was a minority. So by nationality and by race, I was a minority and I definitely felt like I connected with the minority groups a lot more than when I was in Japan and same thing when I was in Hong Kong even though racially I was the same category as Asian but by nationality, I was a foreigner in Hong Kong as well. I was a minority in Hong Kong as well and when I noticed about the culture in the US is the masculinity is hyper-masculinity. It’s just like don’t act like a woman. Being like a woman is the biggest insult that you can make to men, which I don’t want to believe right? But when you use those words like be a man, don’t act like a girl, and grow a pair, that’s what you’re referring to. American culture I think there is a great idea like chivalry, lady first and that kind of idea. I think the idea of hyper-masculinity is very present and when you actually think about the idea of chivalry, it can be sexists if you are only being nice and kind to one sex. So if you are a man and only being kind to women in your life that can be sexist because kindness goes to all kinds of people, right? Like do you only hold a door to the women behind you? What if there is a man who is behind that women, would you hold the door for him too? You know that kind of thing and in Japan, it is actually quite the opposite. I don’t think chivalry ever existed in Japan. It is more about gentleman like a man first and women follow. So I talk about this in my book. I was in Osaka for a work trip and I took my team out for breakfast and I was sitting closest to the waiter and then the waiter brought a tray full of silverware and handed it to me and I gave the silverware to everyone individually. And two women, female employees were like, “Oh this doesn’t happen very often,” and at first I was like, “Oh what are you talking about? Are you talking about the waiter handing out the silverware directly to the customer or about a man handing out the silverware to women?” and it was the later. So in many parts of Japan, I think pretty much everywhere, women are expected to kind of serve men with those things especially when you go out to eat, handing out plates and silverware. And all of that kind of stuff and that’s something that is expected and going back to the chivalry example, I think if you are doing it for other people just to show your kindness I think that is a kind gesture. If as a culture if you are expecting just one sex to do nice things to the other sex, obviously that sexism. So I think we should just promote kindness and being nice to people regardless of their gender and their backgrounds.

[0:19:30] DA: How is the writing process and publishing this book changed you? Were there any lessons learned along the way?

[0:19:38] Shu Matsuo: Absolutely. So now this book is out, people will read my words, my ideas, what I stand for and I have to hold myself accountable. You know there are so many moments where I was writing where like, “Oh man, I don’t know if I want to say this because this means it’s out and about and I am going to have to hold myself accountable” and in hindsight that is actually what I wanted to do. I got a lot of joy out of writing and I also felt a great sense of responsibility to lead by example. I can’t just write things that I don’t practice anymore. I wanted to write because I wanted to lead by example. I wanted to hold myself accountable for what I stand for and it only amplifies what I want to share with the world, with my community that is the change that I saw since I started writing this book.

[0:20:34] DA: Yeah that’s really cool. Shu, writing a book especially like this one, which is going to help empower so many people is no small feat so congratulations.

[0:20:43] Shu Matsuo: Thank you.

[0:20:44] DA: We only touched on the surface of the book. There is so many more stories and interesting facts in there but if you could narrow it down to just one thing readers will take away from the book, what would it be?

[0:20:56] Shu Matsuo: So this book is about lessons from my journey into authenticity and vulnerability and feminism. It is also about achieving freedom from gender limitations and to me that is about living the truest and boldest life you can possibly live.

[0:21:12] DA: Shu, this has been a pleasure. I’m really excited for people to check out the book. Everyone, the books is called, I Took Her Name, and you can find it on Amazon. Shu besides checking out the book, where can people find you?

[0:21:22] Shu Matsuo: Yes, so I have two websites. The official page for my book is itookhername.com and I have my personal website, which is shumatsuopost.com or they can find me on my Instagram page, which is Shu Matsuo-Post.

[0:21:40] DA: Awesome Shu. Thank you so much for coming on the show today.

[0:21:43] Shu Matsuo: Awesome, thank you so much for having me Drew.

[0:21:46] DA: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Author Hour. You can get Shu Matsuo Post’s new book, I Took Her Name, on Amazon. Also, you can also find a transcript of this episode and all of our other episodes on our website at authorhour.co. For more Author Hour, subscribe to this podcast on your favorite subscription service. Thank you for joining us, we’ll see you next time. Same place, different author.