Jolene Winn: The Not Enough Wife: Why We Look Outside Ourselves and How to Stop

Transcript

[0:00:40] DA: Ladies, have you ever felt that you weren’t enough? Not pretty enough, not talented enough, not sexy enough, not mom enough? The ‘not enough’ wife is stuck trying to be everything in her life and, no matter how hard she tries, the feeling of not enough remains. Well, it is time to stop. Looking outside yourself will never solve how you feel about yourself on the inside. In her new book, The Not Enough Wife, Jolene Winn educates on how to start seeing yourself for who you are, rather than, who you think you were supposed to be. Using her journey as a guide. Jolene walks you through the lessons she learned from a lifetime of body image issues, the constant pressures of social media, her miscarriage and her marital challenges after learning of her husband’s pornography addiction. If you’re tired of looking outside of yourself ore validation or self-worth, you could stop looking, because it’s already in you and every “not enough wife” deserves to see she doesn’t have to be everything. She just has to be herself. Hey, listeners. My name is Drew Applebaum and I’m excited to be here today with Jolene Winn, author of The Not Enough Wife: Why We Look Outside Ourselves and How to Stop. Jolene, thank you for joining, welcome to the Author Hour Podcast.

[0:02:03] Jolene Winn: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited.

[0:02:05] DA: Well, Jolene, take that excitement and help us kick off the podcast. Could you give us a brief rundown of your professional background?

[0:02:13] Jolene Winn: Absolutely. I am a life coach and I work with predominantly Christian women who have a spouse that’s struggling with pornography use. So I started this a couple of years ago when my own husband revealed that he had been struggling with pornography and as I started looking for solutions, as I started looking for resources, I realized that there weren’t that many for women. So I decided to become that resource and so that is when I decided to do coaching and that’s when I became certified as a life coach and I started my own business and now, that is what I do.

[0:02:53] DA: Wow, so why was now the time to share this story? Have you been doing this long enough? You feel like you’ve built up enough to say or did you hold yourself back for a while, thinking, waiting for the perfect book to write, if you will?

[0:03:05] Jolene Winn: That’s a really good question. So I have been working with my clients for a couple of years and I have a podcast that I do and so I’ve been sharing information specifically for those women but the more that I coached these women and the more I was helping them, the more I realized that the tools that I had learned could be applied more broadly. So it didn’t have to be for women specifically who have a spouse struggling with pornography. I found that the issues my clients were having, the things they were struggling with were actually something that all women could relate to and so I got the idea for the book a couple of years ago but it took me some time to get it, you know, fully written, and the culmination of that just happened to be after I had already started my business and so it just came to full fruition. I finished it a couple of months ago and worked with Scribe to get it published and now, it’s ready to go.

[0:04:06] DA: Now, when you said, “Yes, I’m going to write the book” and when you were outlining it and maybe starting those first few chapters, a lot of authors will have some major breakthroughs or learnings along the way, sometimes just by digging deeper into certain subjects, putting the book together just by organizing their thoughts. Did you have any of these breakthroughs or learnings along the way?

[0:04:27] Jolene Winn: I actually did. So what’s fascinating is like, I’ve wanted to write a book since I was little. Since I was probably in middle school, I knew I wanted to write a book and I just couldn’t figure out what to write about. It was just like this dream I had to write a book and I was just going to come up with it one day and it was going to be great and a bestseller and it was going to be amazing but I had no idea what to write about. So after I had been through all of this with my husband and all these life lessons that I had learned, the things that I wanted to write in the book, when I sat down, I thought, this is kind of the advice that I would give my younger self. If I could write a letter to my former self, what would it be? And that was kind of the premise I came up with I for the book. So initially, I titled my book, To The Girl I Used To Be, almost thinking it was a letter and the breakthrough that I had actually came when I was on a call with Scribe, with the woman who helped me finalize the title of the book and so I came to the call thinking, “I have this amazing title, here’s what it is” and she said, “Okay, but what if it wasn’t that?” She said, she was so sweet and she asked me the most incredible questions and that was a really transformative call for me because she got me thinking more and more about who I was writing for. She said, “When the woman that you are thinking about, when your client, when this person, your reader, looks at this book, what are they feeling?” Her asking me that question was so poignant and so powerful for me because that’s when I really came up with the idea that, “You know what? This reader, this woman feels like she’s not enough” and that’s when we came up with the title that it is now and that I feel like really encompasses what I teach in this book, the things that I’m sharing in this book and really, what these readers are going to relate to and so I think, that was actually the most profound experience in writing the book.

[0:06:23] DA: Let’s actually expand on that. That was my first question about the book, being the title. So what is the feeling of or you know, the description of a not enough wife?

[0:06:37] Jolene Winn: That’s a great question. So here’s what’s fascinating about women and I think, sometimes, guys can feel this way but mostly guys don’t struggle with this in the same way that women do. Women often struggle with feeling like they’re not enough, like they are not skinny enough, not smart enough. If they’re a work-from-home mom, then they’re not doing that well enough. They’re not balanced enough, they’re not Instagram-worthy enough. There’s all of these thoughts that we have in our brains about how we’re not what we should be, that we’re not quite reaching the expectations that we have of ourselves, and what happens is, that most of us are trying to solve that by doing more. Trying to lose the weight, make more money, be more patient with our kids, throw the Pinterest-worthy birthday parties, all of those things, doing what we think is going to make us feel more fulfilled, more complete and that is never going to be the solution. So the title of the book, The Not Enough Wife, is really how I came to realize that I felt like I wasn’t enough and why all the ways that I try to solve that outside of myself and teaching women how that’s never going to work and how to change it and so that is what the whole book is about is if you’re a woman that has ever felt like you’re not enough in some way, then this is the book for you because this is where I teach how to stop looking outside of yourself and how to fulfill it from the inside out.

[0:08:09] DA: So what would you say the most important aspects are and some of the first steps in that mindset change where you stop comparing yourself to others around you?

[0:08:22] Jolene Winn: That’s a great question. I think that the most important step to start with, which is where I started, was that I had to recognize that even though I knew intellectually that I was fine. I knew intellectually that I was enough. I didn’t feel that way. The understanding that that difference was indicative of a larger issue that I could work through was very powerful. So I grew up in a strong Christian home. I was taught that I have worth and that I have value, it’s not like I had a terrible childhood that I always question that. I had a great home and a great life and intellectually, I understood that I was valuable. I understood that I was worthy. I understood that I was enough. But it didn’t feel that way and recognizing that contrast and being humble enough to say, “Okay, if that’s there, maybe I should look at it” is where I would always recommend starting because, so many times we try to talk our way out of whatever it is that we’re feeling, right? It's like, “Oh, it doesn’t make sense” “Oh, but I really do know that I’m enough.” It’s like, even when you’re frustrated with something, you’re like, “Well, I shouldn’t be frustrated, that shouldn’t bother me.” We try to logic our way out of our emotions all the time and so that is the number one thing I would say is, if you feel like you’re not enough, even though that doesn’t make sense, even if you can logically say, “Here's all the reasons why I should feel like I’m enough” or “That I believe that I am” if it doesn’t resonate with you, if it doesn’t feel that way, then that’s something to look at.

[0:09:59] DA: You know, you also mentioned that if you don’t know yourself, that you can’t expect anyone else to get to know you and I think a lot of people struggle with that, that stump, that pause, that look in the mirror and actually seeing what’s there. So again, what insights could you let people know of really, how to start that process and looking inside and looking within and finding what’s really there?

[0:10:24] Jolene Winn: I think the best way to begin is to learn how to see yourself without judgement. One of the hardest things is, one of the reasons why we hesitate so much to look inward is because we’re so afraid of what we’re going to find. We’re so afraid that if we see something we don’t like, then that will be who we are. If I see myself, if I recognize emotions of jealousy, then it means I am jealous. If I recognize anger, if I allow myself to recognize the anger I feel that it means that I am angry. We tend to take the emotions that we feel and take them on as part of who we are. So having compassion for yourself and recognizing that you are not your emotions, that your emotions are simply something that you feel can give you the space to start looking inward without judging yourself for whatever it is that you find. We are often our own worst critic and we want to judge ourselves because often we think that that will help us become a better person. It’s so backwards, we think if we hate ourselves because we’re fat then somehow it will motivate us to get skinnier. If we hate ourselves for whatever it is that we find if we don’t like what we see and we keep reminding ourselves that we don’t like that that will somehow prevent us from being that person or somehow change us but that never works. It’s actually the opposite, so now we’re just hating ourselves and we’re adding all of this judgment but if you learn how to just drop all the judgment and look at yourself with compassion and recognize that you’re a human being simply having thoughts and emotions, then that creates a space where you can start to look at it in a way to move your forward rather than a way to hold you back.

[0:12:12] DA: Now, a lot of the book is about your life. So I have to ask you, are there moments in your life knowing what you know now that you wished you had stepped back and maybe went a different way or really looked inside and had a different thought or action?

[0:12:32] Jolene Winn: I have to say no. While I do understand the question, ideally, it seems like you would say, “Yes, I wish I had known all of this earlier” into some extent that is true because obviously it would have been super helpful. The only way that I know it now is because of what I went through, does that make sense? The only reason that I was able to find all of this out, as I share in the book, I share a lot of different life experiences. Starting from middle school all the way up to where I am now and sharing, learning what I did throughout those experiences is what enabled me to get to the next step. It was almost like a progression and so I can’t wish that none of it had happened or that I had behaved differently because it was my choices in those moments that culminated in me shifting my mindset to what it is now. It’s those experiences, as difficult as they were, that enabled me to become the person that I am, to have the knowledge that I do now. So I can’t wish that it happened any other way, I have no regrets and I’m so grateful for all of it because it is where I am now.

[0:13:39] DA: I think it’s really interesting that you talk about the virtual world in the book and how it’s not real. It’s not the reality. So in a world that’s just becoming increasingly virtual in every aspect, I mean, I order from a kiosk at McDonald’s. I don’t even talk to anybody, how do you combat this in your day-to-day life?

[0:14:00] Jolene Winn: I think one of the things that I try to remember is that (and I talk about this in the book) is that while the virtual realm, social media is awesome, the things that we’re seeing are just the highlight reel and that there’s people behind it that are more real than the images that you see. The viral TikToks, the reels that you see on Instagram, those are just small, small glimpses of the real people behind it and it’s keeping those people in mind when you are interacting in a virtual realm that enables you to or enables me rather, to take it with a grain of salt as I would say and to recognize that social media and the virtual realm is awesome. It can be a great tool but it’s just a tool. It’s not the real world. What is real, what is more important is human interaction and the more virtual interaction we have, the more I feel like I try to make a point of having intentional human interaction on the opposite side. If I am ordering from a kiosk at McDonald’s then I make sure that I smile at the person who hands me my food. Does that make sense?

[0:15:16] DA: Sure. It totally does. I want to dig a little bit more into you and your life and you know, you mentioned earlier you were confronted by your husband about an issue he’s having and you know, I am sure there is a very long time to process that and everything that happened in your emotions but then you took this and transformed it to becoming what you are now, a life coach. So along that road, can you talk about that transformation from the day you heard to what your life looks like now?

[0:15:49] Jolene Winn: Sure, my husband and I had been married about five or six years when he told me that he’d secretly been addicted to pornography. It was a very brief conversation, it was very abrupt and he said, “I’m fine. I am dealing with it and I don’t want to talk about it” and I was like, “Okay, well, that’s not awesome but I guess we’ll just start there” and so over the next couple of years is when he struggled not only with pornography but with depression. I learned very quickly that I had to let go of my desire to try to fix him, which was very difficult. I wanted to fix him, I wanted to be enough for him, right? I wanted and I think we all do this at some point in our lives, we have someone in our lives that’s struggling, a child, a best friend, a spouse and we want to be enough. We want to be the reason they get better, the reason they quit, the reason they start over, the reason they do anything. I wanted to be enough of a reason for my husband to stop watching porn. I wanted to be enough of a reason for him to pull himself out of depression and I had to learn very quickly that his journey and his emotions and his actions were not my responsibility and that the only thing I can control was myself and as I learned that, that is when I started becoming interested in podcasts. I was introduced to Mindset Podcast through my sister and it was even about something totally unrelated. It was about motherhood. She’s like, “If you’re frustrated with your kids…” I have five kids, I’m a stay-at-home mom, I had the whole frustration thing going on, I do it really well. She was like, “If you’re struggling with yelling at your kids, here’s this podcast that’s going to help you stop yelling at your kids” and I was like, “What? I could totally use that.” That is what I started with, mindset, and it made me realize how much I had been able to shift on my own but then helped me expedite that and once I learned how to apply it specifically, not only to motherhood but also to my husband’s pornography addiction, that’s when I sat down with my husband and I said, “Look, I feel an obligation to go help other women that are in the same situation” and he said, “Let’s go” and so we did. So I started, I certified as a life coach, I went through life coach training and I launched my business in 2018 and I’ve been doing it ever since.

[0:18:13] DA: What impact do you hope the book will have on a reader and are there any immediate steps you hope that they’ll take after finishing the book?

[0:18:24] Jolene Winn: I’m hoping that my reader gains tools. It’s a very life coach-y thing to say but I hope that they learn something from the book that helps them start to shift the way they see themselves, that helps them start to combat those thoughts, combat the comparison, combat the negative mindset that makes them feel like they’re not enough. If nothing else, I hope they gain just one thing. One thing from the book, one sentence, one thought, one tool that helps them start to see themselves and think about themselves a little bit differently. That would be just the most beautiful thing I think that could come out of this book is that they find something of value in it that actually helps them start to see themselves as I see them, which is completely enough just as they are. As far as immediate action steps, obviously, I’m a life coach. I would love to coach all the women who want to come join my coaching program but what I hope for more than anything, if they wanted to take an action is to start deciding for themselves who they want to be, look at where they are and who they are and decide on purpose who they want to be and make a plan to get there and then act on it. Whatever that looks like, that might look like starting a family or joining a gym or changing careers. It might look like writing a book themselves, whatever it is for them, the dream that they always had, I would like them to look at where they are and what they want and make a plan to get there and then take the very first step.

[0:20:08] DA: I love that and Jolene, we just touched on the surface of the book here. There is so much more inside, you are super vulnerable, you tell your story, it’s incredibly compelling. I just want to say that putting this book together just to instill confidence and self-assurance for people out there is no small feat. So congratulations on having your book published.

[0:20:27] Jolene Winn: Thank you so much. I’m so excited.

[0:20:30] DA: Jolene, this has been a pleasure. I’m excited for people to check out the book. Everyone, the book is called, The Not Enough Wife, and you could find it on Amazon. Jolene, besides checking out the book, where else can people connect with you?

[0:20:42] Jolene Winn: They can find me on Instagram at Jolene Winn Coaching and also on my website, which is www.jolenewinn.com and I do have a podcast, which is called, The Porn Addict’s Wife and they can search that on their favorite podcast app.

[0:20:57] DA: It is Winn with two Ns.

[0:20:59] Jolene Winn: Yes.

[0:20:59] DA: Well Jolene, thank you so much for giving us some of your time today and best of luck with your new book.

[0:21:04] Jolene Winn: Thank you so much Drew.

[0:21:06] DA: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Author Hour. You can get Jolene Winn’s new book, The Not Enough Wife, on Amazon. Also, you can also find a transcript of this episode and all of our other episodes on our website at authorhour.co. For more Author Hour, subscribe to this podcast on your favorite subscription service. Thank you for joining us, we’ll see you next time. Same place, different author.